The Ackerman Way

["The Bat" out of hell]

I think the info has been said and shown.
A few read it wrong,Sorry,I'm sure there both good builders ,just need to fine out the hard way,yet I hope there luck holds as it's been doing.
Slip angle and tire load ,with efect on how close to right on paper ackerman arms should be,can be left to another time,but is mainly for racing.

Thanks to all those that tryed to give in put that helped.

 

[RPM]

:lol:

Somebody lock this thread before things get out of hand.

 

[donsrods]

:lol:

Somebody lock this thread before things get out of hand.

No, it's actually been pretty civil..........no one has gotten shot yet. :lol:

This thread just goes to show that we rodders all have our own opinions and ways of building cars. I've simply given my personal experience and feelings on the subject, and that is what everyone else is doing. American freedom at it's best!!!!! Everyone who posted had very valid points and input.

Would I have installed the steering arms behind the axle on my T if I had room? You bet, but they had to go there because my car is so low, and moving the headlights wasn't an option as they are a design element of the car sitting right where they are.

Bottom line, the car works fine for me as is, so I see no reason to change it, but on the one I am planning to build very soon I am going to attempt to get the arms behind the axle if possible.

Don

 

[Keeper]

ok I get the principle of things, is this why you see some buckets using a high steer setup?

You learn something new everyday...so far on this forum its more than one thing a day!!

 

[LKE]

Oh, BTW, it might surprise some of you to learn that some production cars do not have "proper Ackerman." My Jeep truck was one, it had the drag links and tie rod in front of the axle and the tires screamed like mad when parking it. There are other new cars that also are set up "backwards."

No surprise here, Don. I know someone that works for an enginneering firm that does design work for the Manufactures. He specifically does steering design. He has written SAE tech papers, and holds 7 US patents on streering product design... A for REAL expert on steering. He told me that they do not use 100% ackerman, which is what those drawings show. Instead, they go for about 70-80%. 100% ackerman is great for low speed parking. But the manufactures are more concerned with tire scrub at speed. Trying to reduce frictional losses, trying to improve gas mileage. My father has a 1996 chevy 2wd 1/2ton truck, and it's tires squeal like crazy in parking lots. Another example of a production vehicle without proper ackerman.
I agree with trying to get the ackerman right. Or at least as close as you can I have went so far as to design my own steering arms (and have them laser cut) to get proper ackerman with the tie rod out front.

 

[LKE]

ok I get the principle of things, is this why you see some buckets using a high steer setup?

You learn something new everyday...so far on this forum its more than one thing a day!!

Yeah some of it is. Some people refuse to believe you can get good ackerman with the tie rod out front. And some people just don't like it out front. So mounting it up high is their solution.
I think it doesn't look right if it isn't out front.

 

[Twisted Minis]

I will say my small part on ackerman. I don't believe it is necessary to have perfect ackerman, but I think it should be taken into account. If it is too far apart the vehicle can actually be hard to handle. But then again, I'm used to working with IFS setups, which are slightly more complicated than a straight axle.

However, I bought steering arms that are designed for a front-steer set-up. The ackerman is correct (see pic below).

EDIT: Dang it! Forgot the pic...

Can I ask where you got the arms, and what spindles you are running? I will need some front steer arms at some point soon.

 

[Lee_in_KC]

Can I ask where you got the arms, and what spindles you are running? I will need some front steer arms at some point soon.

Total Performance part # SA 123 (SA 123C for chrome). Spindles are Superbell's version of the 37-41 Ford.

 

[Twisted Minis]

Thanks Lee. Any chance you have a better picture of yours? Its hard to see in that picture, and the one on their site doesn't get bigger. is it a cast look? Or is it flat steel?

 

[Lee_in_KC]

They are flat steel with round rod welded in for the mounting bosses, drilled and tapped.

 

[chop]

mine...yes at very slow speeds the tires slide. this is multiplied by the pea gravel driveway at my house and very visable. But, even the tightest corners on the street it handles like a go cart at speed.