Torque Converter
- Thread starter spayne
- Start date
rooster57
Member
I added 2 quarts to my 350 i would put some in it .
Years ago when vI worked in a trans shop, we put a couple of quarts in first.
Gerry
Well-Known Member
Hi
I am working at a trans shop with my buddy just now. In fact we spent yesterday looking at the Hydra-Test valve body machine with a view to buying it. All digital these days.
OK we fill ALL our customers cars the same way.
Put 4-5 qrts in to the trans. Fire the car up in N. keep adding till you get the level either on the dip stick or coming out of the level plug. Run the car up (needs to be on a ramp, or with wheels in the air and front ones chocked) through the gears and back down again. Also put in to R. Put back into park and fill some more till the level is correct. On some modern cars we take it round the block and recheck.
Really modern cars we recheck the level with the fluid at 25-30 degrees using a laser thermometer or diagnostic equipment.
All TCs are pressure checked at manufacture or rebuild so they will have some fluid in them. Never seen a dry on yet.
The single biggest problem we have when people check their own fluid is they forget the engine needs to be running and they dont dip and clean the dip stick enough times. Because fluid hangs in the filler tube you get false indications of fluid level. On Mercs I normally have to dip and wipe over 20 times to get a clean level line. Secret is to make sure the level on the stick is the same on both sides and above that is clear of fluid. Just keep going till you get a nice clean line of fluid. Under filling a new trans can kill it very quickly.
Hope this helps
Gerry
putz
Member
Gerry
Well-Known Member
Merc do the same for around $75.00. Gulp.
I have worked out the right level!!!!! and have a drawing of the end as well. You can use any type of flex rod and put this end on it. Resourceful aint we.
Gerry
Lee_in_KC
Active Member
My understanding is there are two benefits to putting some fluid in the converter before mounting it to the tranny: 1) it lubricates the moving parts in the converter until the tranny pump can fill it up, and 2) it saves time in filling the converter from the tranny pump. Remember, the tranny pump is a low volume, high pressure pump, so it's going to take a (relative) while for it to pump 4 quarts of fluid into the converter. It just seems logical to me that the less time the converter is running (relatively) dry, the better. If I recall correctly, I put two quarts in my converter and didn't spill nary a drop when sliding it onto the input shaft.
Gerry
Well-Known Member
Hi lee
We always brush trans goo on the input shaft and seal of the trans. This helps to aid the nose of the converter going in to the pump without 'lipping' the seal . As I mentioned I have never seen a dry converter, from GM , ZF or a re-builder. Once the sump is full (as in the first 4 qrts of fluid) the pick up is very quick. We have been filling like this for 30 years and never had a problem. Also we make sure that parts of the trans are squirted with fluid as we build. Sort of the same as an engine rebuild. Squirt oil everywhere and fill the sump. Then fire it up and make sure you have oil pressure ... always take a little while to see the guage rise or the light go out . Some trans you have to soak the frictions in fluid before you build up the clutch pack. Its also the way of many transmission instruction manuals from main dealers or makers.
Gerry
spayne
Member
Thank you for everybody's input. Here is what concerns me the guy who is telling me I don't need the fluid is the one who built it and he used to work in a transmission shop so I thought he would know what he is talking about. The more I read your reply's makes me wonder about him and his work. Will it hurt anything starting dry and then adding fluid? I don't know a whole lot about transmissions so I knew this was the place to come and ask questions you guys are the best at helping. You guys may have some lively discussions but they are always informative and sometime entertaining.:tnku:
Gerry
Well-Known Member
Well its your call which way you go. But remember you are filling the sump before you fire it up. Once the sump is full the pump will pick up fluid immediatly (same as the oil pump in your engine) and there it goes around the system. Do what you feel comfortable with.
Gerry
spayne
Member
We have removed the body to prepare it for finishing and painting so it wouldn't be that hard for me to remove the transmission and fill it. From what I am hearing from everyone here I would be better off filling it now before firing it up and eliminate any problems down the road. Might need to eliminate the mechanic too.
All the aftermarket converters I have purchased, had instructions to add ATF to the converter before installation.
Most said, the warranty would be void if not done. There are no risk to adding it prior to, but I can see where running dry for any length of time could be harmful.
Most said, the warranty would be void if not done. There are no risk to adding it prior to, but I can see where running dry for any length of time could be harmful.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
I tries to post this lastnight, but we were having a rain storm and satellite reception was bad, so heres the post....I just pasted and copied......
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Yep....VB is right...won't hurt....matter for fact...it helps. Usually when we build a car, we do the motor and trans together. Alot of folks put the Stall Converter in as a piece of performance equip. A std. converter even benefits.
When you change them out or have your trans. rebuilt, this thing is dry. When you start the motor for the first time, the front pump has to pull fluid from the pan, thru the trans parts,(valve body included), and fill the torque converter.
This thing is spinning around with a heavy impellar in it, connected to the engine, trying to drive the front pump, and the impellar shaft has been spinning some with no lubrication on the brass thrust bearings and front support bushing, etc, etc,....see where I'm going with this?
Then, after running the motor some, you have to shift thru the gears several times to get the car to move. Your essentially priming the clutches and valvebody doing this. Usually when we redo a trans., we hook the thing up to a big electric motor and run it a little....that way we're not throwing a bunch of horses to a dry, vulnerable trans....
Its best to have all the components filled with fluid and operated a little before trying to move a 3500+ pound car or truck. A light bucket....its a little different....but still....theres wear and possible heating of hardened parts that could cause annealing, possibly even drawing down of the parts, causing premature wear.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep....VB is right...won't hurt....matter for fact...it helps. Usually when we build a car, we do the motor and trans together. Alot of folks put the Stall Converter in as a piece of performance equip. A std. converter even benefits.
When you change them out or have your trans. rebuilt, this thing is dry. When you start the motor for the first time, the front pump has to pull fluid from the pan, thru the trans parts,(valve body included), and fill the torque converter.
This thing is spinning around with a heavy impellar in it, connected to the engine, trying to drive the front pump, and the impellar shaft has been spinning some with no lubrication on the brass thrust bearings and front support bushing, etc, etc,....see where I'm going with this?
Then, after running the motor some, you have to shift thru the gears several times to get the car to move. Your essentially priming the clutches and valvebody doing this. Usually when we redo a trans., we hook the thing up to a big electric motor and run it a little....that way we're not throwing a bunch of horses to a dry, vulnerable trans....
Its best to have all the components filled with fluid and operated a little before trying to move a 3500+ pound car or truck. A light bucket....its a little different....but still....theres wear and possible heating of hardened parts that could cause annealing, possibly even drawing down of the parts, causing premature wear.....
BLUEGRASST
New Member
I remember Jesse James burning one up on his show . Now that was an oops!
Keeper
Active Member
Okay here is a follow up (sort of) to this question.
I rebuilt my trans over a year ago. When I rebuilt it I soaked everything in fluid, filled the pump etc. Now that it has been sitting for a while how do I "pre-lube" the trans? I seen reference to a "Big electric motor" how big are we talking? Would a 1hp motor do it? I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how to do it without tearing it back apart.
I rebuilt my trans over a year ago. When I rebuilt it I soaked everything in fluid, filled the pump etc. Now that it has been sitting for a while how do I "pre-lube" the trans? I seen reference to a "Big electric motor" how big are we talking? Would a 1hp motor do it? I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how to do it without tearing it back apart.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
[quote name ='Keeper' timestamp='1287879953' post='124340']
Okay here is a follow up (sort of) to this question.
I rebuilt my trans over a year ago. When I rebuilt it I soaked everything in fluid, filled the pump etc. Now that it has been sitting for a while how do I "pre-lube" the trans? I seen reference to a "Big electric motor" how big are we talking? Would a 1hp motor do it? I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how to do it without tearing it back apart.
[/quote]
The motor I use on my trans, is a 50 horse Baldor. I have a test stand built so I can bolt everything up, a big lovejoy coupler that attachs to a support shaft with support bearings, then to a adaptor plate that bolts to the converter. I can prime and run it in....just for test purposes. I also have a bigger one to drive my blowers on that test stand also.
You would probably be ok, since you did soak everything....but if you want to lube it....its relatively simple. Take off your cooler lines....1 should be a return line and one should be a send. Hook up the send line to a tank and pump in some fluid. Won't take much....you just want to moisten it up so that everything won't be dry. You'll feed fluid to the pump and a few other critical areas, that way it won't take as long for the fluid to start circulating thru out the trans. Be care though....I have spit the converters off with the setup I have....so get a bungie cord, go across the bellhousing face and agianst the converter so it won't try to fall.
You have the transmission sitting for over a year, and some of those clearences are really tight, what little bit of oil has drained away....I use a old 5 gallon airtank thats converted to a 'primer', if its just been sitting for awhile. I have one for trans.'s and one for motors. They have a pump and switch with a regulator and pressure guage, etc. I just hook it up and feed pressure to for about a minute or two, disconnect and hit the starter. All should be fine....
Okay here is a follow up (sort of) to this question.
I rebuilt my trans over a year ago. When I rebuilt it I soaked everything in fluid, filled the pump etc. Now that it has been sitting for a while how do I "pre-lube" the trans? I seen reference to a "Big electric motor" how big are we talking? Would a 1hp motor do it? I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how to do it without tearing it back apart.
[/quote]
The motor I use on my trans, is a 50 horse Baldor. I have a test stand built so I can bolt everything up, a big lovejoy coupler that attachs to a support shaft with support bearings, then to a adaptor plate that bolts to the converter. I can prime and run it in....just for test purposes. I also have a bigger one to drive my blowers on that test stand also.
You would probably be ok, since you did soak everything....but if you want to lube it....its relatively simple. Take off your cooler lines....1 should be a return line and one should be a send. Hook up the send line to a tank and pump in some fluid. Won't take much....you just want to moisten it up so that everything won't be dry. You'll feed fluid to the pump and a few other critical areas, that way it won't take as long for the fluid to start circulating thru out the trans. Be care though....I have spit the converters off with the setup I have....so get a bungie cord, go across the bellhousing face and agianst the converter so it won't try to fall.
You have the transmission sitting for over a year, and some of those clearences are really tight, what little bit of oil has drained away....I use a old 5 gallon airtank thats converted to a 'primer', if its just been sitting for awhile. I have one for trans.'s and one for motors. They have a pump and switch with a regulator and pressure guage, etc. I just hook it up and feed pressure to for about a minute or two, disconnect and hit the starter. All should be fine....
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