Wobbling front wheels

[Neshkoro]

Hey guys,
I wrote some time ago about this problem I have with the front wheels wobbling on my t-bucket. Some of you gave great responses and I tried all the things suggested. The wheels still have a mind if their own. The car just won't go down the road straight. It will follow every crack, dip and rut in the road. It has a custom made front axle with 1952 Ford spindles with the yokes welded to the axle. I set the toe in to 1/8". It has new king pins, bushings, and rod ends. The steering box seems to be tight with little play at the pitman arm. The bias ply front tires are old but, still have good tread on them. As you can see from the photo, the caster angle is about 6 degrees. I tried to adjust the front tire air pressure up, down and in the middle. All with no improvement. Any more thoughts? It's getting cold in the midwest, so I might have to wait until spring to test anything.

Thanks,

Bill

 

[Wild Mango]

Hey guys,
I wrote some time ago about this problem I have with the front wheels wobbling on my t-bucket. Some of you gave great responses and I tried all the things suggested. The wheels still have a mind if their own. The car just won't go down the road straight. It will follow every crack, dip and rut in the road. It has a custom made front axle with 1952 Ford spindles with the yokes welded to the axle. I set the toe in to 1/8". It has new king pins, bushings, and rod ends. The steering box seems to be tight with little play at the pitman arm. The bias ply front tires are old but, still have good tread on them. As you can see from the photo, the caster angle is about 6 degrees. I tried to adjust the front tire air pressure up, down and in the middle. All with no improvement. Any more thoughts? It's getting cold in the midwest, so I might have to wait until spring to test anything.

Thanks,

Bill

Does it track straight on a nice flat road? If it's bumps and irregularities that upset it it could be you have bump steer in the front end geometry. Bump steer is where the wheel steer angle changes with travel with reference to the pitman arm end where the drag link connects. A lot worse with front steer.
IMHO your caster setting is on the high end of just right. I like a good dose of caster myself, because they track straight.
You might confirm whether you are front or side steer?

 

[Old Rotor Flap]

The "custom axle" got my attention. I suggest you get the car on a front end alignment machine and see what the numbers say.

 

[Corley]

Just a suggestion here in defining the problem better... I've got a C5 'Vette, that really hates ruts in the road. My neighbor has a Viper that hates them even worse. Any car that has very wide tires will have an issue with rutted roads, because the wide tires will attempt to "climb" or "crawl" out of the ruts. Making this even worse is the fact that we have much narrower tires on the fronts, so they don't tend to climb the ruts the same way, and if the track is not the same front to rear it's even worse. The action then is the rear goes to one side or the other at it tries to climb the rut, and the front stays put or climbs the other side of the rut, so the car stears one way or the other while you hang on and try to correct it.

I also have a motorhome that has different track width on the front than it has on the rear, so even though the tires are not all that wide, sometimes the rears will try to climb the rut one way while the fronts are trying to climb the rut in the other way, and the action is the same, it jumps all over the place. Put any of these vehicles on a smooth road without ruts, and they track nice and true. This can get even worse because the track width is not the same as that of the ruts in the road, so one side is pulling one way, and the other side it pulling the other way, and it tends to cause it to make a leap one way or the other now and then. Could this be your problem?

The rears being extra wide on a 'T' bucket can have this rut climbing issue in spades, while the skinny fronts don't do it, so the car sort of shots one way, then the other on rutted roads. Here in the northwest, we have lot's of rutted freeways from trucks with chains in the winter months eating out the ruts. Just a thought...

One last thought, have you made sure that the rear end is really secure? If something is not tight back there it can cause all sorts of issues with steering...

 

[putz]

Bias ply tires are known for following the road contour that is why alot of people changed to radials.

 

[lincolnuT]

Before I did anything else I would change those front tires to radials. I would bet my next bowl of Ice Cream....................Not........

 

[Neshkoro]

Before I did anything else I would change those front tires to radials. I would bet my next bowl of Ice Cream....................Not........

The tires were my next thought as I have tried averything else I can think of. I was told years ago that you should not mix bias belted with radial tires. What is the latest thoughts on that? The car does wander on a nice flat straight road, too. Like I said; it has a mind of its own. You have to continually correct the steering. The thought about the rear end nort being secure makes me thing that maybe something needs to be done back there All it has is a Model T buggy spring attached to the rear end with shackles and radiur rods. Maybe it needs a panhard rod?

 

[deckofficer]

Mine wasn't nearly as bad as you described, however when I switched the rear M/T bias tires with M/T radials, what little issue I had gone away. I have always had radials in front. Until I read your post, I thought my small tracking issue was because one of those M/T bias rears had a busted cord that the dyno operator noticed.

Bob

 

[Ted Brown]

Without a few pics of your setup, it would be hard to just guess as to what and why...

 

[Neshkoro]

I'll get some more pictures over the weekend and get back to it next week.

 

[Neshkoro]

Here are some photos of the car. Probably not much help in solving the problem but, that's what I have for now. By the way, I'm the old guy in the photos. The younger guy is my young son.

 

["The Bat" out of hell]

Here are some photos of the car. Probably not much help in solving the problem but, that's what I have for now. By the way, I'm the old guy in the photos. The younger guy is my young son.

Nice bucket,Just from photo,little pics and no close ups of front end,but looks like from them and some guessing; [A]no lat control link and acrkerman is backward,[C]front tires/RIMS apear offset a lot to out side making kingpin incline/tire roadcontact patch far from right.
These things can be part or all off the wobbling,that and all the good ideas you have already got from others.

 

[Neshkoro]

I decreased the size of the photos so I could attach them. Maybe I went too small. I know the ackerman is incorrect. I thought that was only a problem when making turns. The wheels are a bit offset. I kind of thought that the straight axle was the lateral control link. Do you think I should add one to the front end and/ or rear end? I'll take some more photos of the front end (if I don't freeze to death in the cold garage; 21 degrees here right now).

 

[2old2fast]

Actually the spring is the front lateral control link MOL however I doubt that's your problem. these cars are hyper-sensitive to toe -in ,and shock control, out of round tires & ANY play in the steering box/linkage just to start.

dave

 

[Ted Brown]

You say it is wondering, not death wobble, that is because you are running wide and kinda tall tires, those on a light weight front end will cause the tires to track to the road conditions, like tar strips, etc. smaller tires work best on these front ends, I have found.

 

["The Bat" out of hell]

Ted's point is a strong one,these front ends are all about balance of force factors. Smaller tire lowers some bad ,just don't go to MC or tractor tires, like i see at times with no tread on the road for braking.

 

[rooster57]

Ted has tried every combo his opinion is from years of building cars from nothing.

 

[Ted Brown]

Sometimes for next to nothing is totally true,$$ and at times I lost money building for a so called friend... A friend in need... never again, and I have said that too many times over my life time...

 

[Neshkoro]

The tires are bias belted, 24" in diameter and have a tread width of 5". That's not too tall or wide. Can you mix bias and radial tires?
I thought that was a no no.

 

[409T]

The tires are bias belted, 24" in diameter and have a tread width of 5". That's not too tall or wide. Can you mix bias and radial tires?
I thought that was a no no.

There are a whole lot of T's running around with bias ply Mickey Thompsons on the rear and radials on the front.