Billet

[Gerry]

Mike has just opened up the door for me on this one. Bet I will get some grunts about my view but here goes

You will NOT see Billet on any of my cars, unless there is no alternative with a part. Why

To me Billet has no soul, no love in it and it devoid of 'personality' Yep is PERFECT to the n'th degree and thats what I dont like about it. Modern CAD systems even tell you if you have got something wrong before it happens, and are capable of (given a good operator) producing things we would never tackle if it was done the old way. I know that CNC does things we could only imagine just a few years ago but to me its just lifeless.

There you go I have said it. Not knocking anyone who likes the stuff, or has it all over their ride. Just not for me.

Let the onslaught begin....
Gerry

PS Bits you see on my T that look like billet are hand made the old way. And YEP I do use a lathe and mill. But manual ones.

 

[Mike]

As you've no doubt seen, I'm not to fussed about things like that. If the owner of a custom vehicle of any kind is able to get it out of the garage, drive it and enjoy it, I really don't care about the money he's sunk into the project. My former employer owned a '32 at one time. He bought a finished car, but it was an older build and he wanted things like power windows and A/C, so the entire car was rebuilt. He could afford to have the work done and never touched a bit of it. But then, he refused to get the car out and actually drive it. What good is that? If you visited the house, he would take you out to the garage to see the car, but he never drove it.

A couple of good pals both had 1967 435 HP Corvettes. Both did complete, body-off restorations. One guy got his car finished and realized he had so much invested in it, he was never going to enjoy driving it. So he sold it, bought a car he could enjoy, and put a bunch of money in the bank. The other guy was restoring his car because he had exploded a clutch and it had pretty much carved everything off the firewall, before parts started exiting through the hood. He spent W-A-Y too much money on the restoration. Two weeks after getting everything back together, he was cruising down a county road. He downshifted to 3rd and stood on it. The car lit the rear tires, he lost control and was suddenly playing combine in a cornfield. I don't know he ever got all the corn plants pulled out of everything.

Both of them had restored a really great car and both of them were having fun, even though one had sold his restoration. But the having fun part is all that really counts, isn't it?

Whatever tickles thy fancy.

 

[lincolnuT]

Mike has just opened up the door for me on this one. Bet I will get some grunts about my view but here goes

You will NOT see Billet on any of my cars, unless there is no alternative with a part. Why

To me Billet has no soul, no love in it and it devoid of 'personality' Yep is PERFECT to the n'th degree and thats what I dont like about it. Modern CAD systems even tell you if you have got something wrong before it happens, and are capable of (given a good operator) producing things we would never tackle if it was done the old way. I know that CNC does things we could only imagine just a few years ago but to me its just lifeless.

There you go I have said it. Not knocking anyone who likes the stuff, or has it all over their ride. Just not for me.

Let the onslaught begin....
Gerry

PS Bits you see on my T that look like billet are hand made the old way. And YEP I do use a lathe and mill. But manual ones.

Gerry,

A couple of years ago I bought a Mill & Lathe that does everything manuel so when you see Billet on my cars you can rest assured it was done the old way by manuel Mike...........I think the stuff needs a little character so it can ride on my machines.........as in trailer hitch..........

Mike in New Mexico

 

[Gerry]

Gerry,

A couple of years ago I bought a Mill & Lathe that does everything manuel so when you see Billet on my cars you can rest assured it was done the old way by manuel Mike...........I think the stuff needs a little character so it can ride on my machines.........as in trailer hitch..........

Mike in New Mexico

 

[Gerry]

Tell tale signs of hours of work and I bet enjoyment. Its so good to look at something like that and think.. yep I made it.
G

 

[lincolnuT]

Here is what it looks like on the car and yep I made it in the shop behind the house.........I guess you could say Made in the USA......... :kiltdance:

Mike

 

[Gerry]

seen the pics before. Thats one clean chassis. I hope you are proud because I would be.
very good work and all yours to boot, I will bet.

Theres a few multi nations that could benefit from engineering skills like yours..... Its all been forgotten. talking to a guy the other day who works for an aerospace company he mentioned that in the casting dept they have huge failure rates since they left 'THE OLD GUY' leave. He could tell if a casting was right by the look, smell and feel of it. And they woder why things crash these days.
Yeh I know Im on a downer with modern technology but its got a long way to go to catch up with experience

Gerry

 

[ellis8500]

"Billet" simply means something machined from a solid block of material. Manual, NC, CNC, whittled with a knife. Makes no difference. Still a "Billet" part. So, for you guys that manually machine parts from a solid block....well.....it's still a billet part.

Gerry...what you say about experience is true. It's called the "Hidden Factory". It's part of the reason that the US and much of Europe is loosing it's competitive edge to other parts of the world. Many companies here, including mine. are trying to fix that. But, often times the workforce [all aspects of it] think that they are giving up information that will lead to their job being lost. It's a big hill to climb trying to convince them that we are really trying to save their jobs. Sure this will cause some discussion.

 

[Gerry]

"Billet" simply means something machined from a solid block of material. Manual, NC, CNC, whittled with a knife. Makes no difference. Still a "Billet" part. So, for you guys that manually machine parts from a solid block....well.....it's still a billet part.

Gerry...what you say about experience is true. It's called the "Hidden Factory". It's part of the reason that the US and much of Europe is loosing it's competitive edge to other parts of the world. Many companies here, including mine. are trying to fix that. But, often times the workforce [all aspects of it] think that they are giving up information that will lead to their job being lost. It's a big hill to climb trying to convince them that we are really trying to save their jobs. Sure this will cause some discussion.

You are correct. Billet means from a solid block. Trouble is these days it ALWAYS on a CNC. reason is that a CNC can reduce a block to the part (less finishing cuts) in such a short time is ridiculous. My friends around the corner have just got a new 4 axis mill which will take an 8 mm deep cut with a 75mm diameter shell cutter, in Mild steel at 5 metres per minute. You have to see it to appeciate how much metal this thing removes in one go. The cutter spins at 12000 rpm and thats a delay as it takes a few seconds to wind up to that speed. Also has 5 sperate coolant nozzles all running at high pressure aimed at the cutter to keep things cool. Thats 250K US Dollars worth of mill. If its out of work for a week then it becomes a problem.

Have NO problem with billet.... just dont like it.
Gerry

 

[Ted Brown]

Gerry, Like you say, I also like the look of had formed & fitted parts, nice curves and smooth shapes, that only a hand file can achieve ...

 

[benT]

I agree a bit with Mike. If its what you like, so be it--you should be happy with it. :nod:

As for the CNC vs the manual mill, well use what you got. I don't have either (yet!). I will admit that I am currently having 2 air cleaner lids cnc machined for my '27. After years of searching for an air cleaner (or cleaners) that are ribbed to match my vintage cal custom valve covers, I have come up empty. The last resort was to have a lid custom machined. One of our customers has a small machine shop and was willing to cut these for me when his CNC is not busy. Sure it can be cut manually, but what do I really care? The cnc will ensure that both of them are perfect matches and conform to the cad drawing that I gave him. Now, I won't just be sticking these on without any work to them. When I get them back, I'll be hand shaping and smoothing them to have the same look and feel of the valve covers and will ceramic coat them to match.

 

[spike]

I've been working in machine shops since age 14. Iam now 55 years old. I have experienced the evolution in the machinery used to produce all kinds of parts. I currently work with cad/cam, 3D models and some of the latest machinery on the market. I don't know if its my age or the fact that I have seen where we started, but the truth is that I am truly amazed at what we are doing in regards to the manufacturing of parts.

For years the machine salesman would try to sell you a CNC machine based on the statement that all you have to do is load the part and push the button and anybody could do it. What a load of crap! I can tell you this much that no matter how advanced the machine is, it still requires someone with a high level of machining skills to make them run. I wish we had a shop full of guys like Gerry and the rest of you guys that can tackle most anything on your own with whatever technology you have in your garage. That's why I got interested in building my own car and thats why I love reading the threads in this forum.

 

[LarryH]

I like billet on some cars. On a basically stock muscle car? No. On a street rod? Sure. An old school hot rod? No way. I have some billet on my late model pickup but not on my T-Bucket or my '56 Chevy.

 

[Allen]

Billet shows class. Expensive. I like the look on a Jag rear-end, but I'm leaning more and more towards a clean rat. I think Ron did a post before I joined on a black T bucket, super low to the ground with two aluminum bucket seats. We have a problem in California. Nothing can be below the rims. I like the photographs that T-odd takes. I like that look, but it would be illegal in California.

 

[Old Rotor Flap]

I design on Mastercam and make the suff on CNC machines, so no one thinks I bought it from JC Whitney.

 

[Mike]

I agree a bit with Mike. If its what you like, so be it--you should be happy with it.

I just don't want to appear snobbish about things.

How "purist" can we afford to get with things?

Snob #1 - Did you see that T over there? It's not a real T, since the body isn't steel.

Snob #2 - Yeah, but look at the bondo you used in your steel body. I leaded my work.

Snob #3 - Yeah, but look at the pinstriping on your car. My car has original Von Dutch pinstriping.

Where does it all end, once it gets started?

When it comes to my toys, I don't particularly care who else likes them or not. The toys are mine, paid for with my hard-earned dollars and they make me smile. What else counts? In my book, not a doggone thing. If someone doesn't care for them, that's quite alright with me, they're completely free to do things exactly as they want. Because their toys don't have to please me, either.

 

[T-Test]

Here! Here!

 

[Ted Brown]

Gerry, Like you say, I also like the look of had?? = hand formed & fitted parts, nice curves and smooth shapes, that only a hand file can achieve ...

Sweet smoking tires, can't even spell/type hand... left out the n ended up with had, so the spell checker missed a wrong word, that sucks...

 

[Gerry]

I think at this point its worth pasting a line from my original post .

Not knocking anyone who likes the stuff, or has it all over their ride. Just not for me.

This is not about the money spent or the Billet on a car. Its just about personal preferences. I wanted to know if people felt like me about billet or if I am so out of touch Ive become a dinosaur-ous.

Gerry

 

[2old2fast]

Maybe not a dino' , but your getting close!! my daughter refers to my miss-spent youth as "back in the cave days" , so I guess any of us that have seen 6 decades [or more] are cave men. dave