Camber Correction

[sschutze]

I just bought a running/driveable '23 T-Bucket and am going to start to clean up some of the issues left by the previous owner. I've been working on muscle cars most of my life, but I'm new to the earlier model cars so forgive my ignorance if I sometimes use the wrong terms.

My first task is to resolve the sever positive camber issue on my front axle. If you look at the front view picture on my Gallery page you'll see what I mean. Everything I have found online tells me this car has a '32 - 36 Ford front axle with about a 2 ½" drop. The car runs down the road straight and smooth, which tells me the toe is correct (or very close), but I do not see any adjustment for the camber. Someone mentioned a wedge type shim for the spindle mount to align it closer to verticle, but I haven't found anything like that online. Any suggestions?

I could take this to an alignment shop but I I like working on my cars too much to let someone else have all the fun. I'll use the professionals to fine tune the alignment.

 

[Old Rotor Flap]

At first I thought you had spelled caster wrong, but then I looked at your pictures.

A shim won't correct the problem.

I suggest you replace the front axle - like a tube or Ibeam from Chassis Engineering as they offer forged axles and spindles and not castings like other suppliers.

Honest gents, I am not employed by CE, I just like and use their products.

And, you should consider a welded tube axle from RPM - a revered sponsor here and a good buy.

 

[Keeper]

It almost looks like they are the wrong spindles for the axle.

You could get the axle dropped, when they do the drop they can correct the camber built into the axle, no way you will fix that with a shim. Have you measured it to see what the angle is?

 

[Keeper]

This should help

 

[Youngster]

Your axle IS a '32 to '36. It has not been dropped. The camber should be at 8 degrees, the same from '28 to '48. If yours is more you will have to bend the axle to adjust it. Most heavy truck shops can do this without removing the axle from the car. Your car sits right for the period it was built, I wouldn't change a thing. Remember, changing the hiegth of your front cross member is going to change other angles too, engine angle, caster angle, drive shaft phasing, etc. You can't beat a stock ford forged axle. Same with your spindles. They are '37 to '40 Ford forged units and pretty much bullet proof. If in fact the car was built as it is now when they say it was, I would bet the steering arms and disc brake kit are Super Bell items. Here again, Jim Ewing did his home work. the steel in them is as close as he could get to ol' Henry's specs.

Henry spent time doing his home work. He used Vadium steel, actually an alloy in the forged parts as well as the frames, wishbones, torque tubes and axle housings. This practice was dis continued later in '49 to keep costs down.

I know Tube axles are the norm on T buckets but they will never replace a Ford "I" beam. You said the car handled great on the trip home right?

Just my 2 cents.

Ron

 

[Youngster]

I need to correct something here. I would remount the shocks as was suggested in another post.

Ron

 

[Duke]

Just looking at the camber and wondering if the spindles are not on upside down. It looks like if the spindle was rotated 180 degrees the camber would be about right. I can hear a bunch of people saying I am nuts, but only takes a second to look. Pull one king pin and try it, you maybe surprised.

 

[Ted Brown]

I once had a set of spindles that did the very same thing, can't really remember just what they fit, another ford product Lincoln I think it was... Just get a stock set of spindles and all should be fine, I would bet...

 

[Youngster]

Ted might have it. I remember reading somewhere the king pin inclination on the '37 to '48 Lincolns was 4 degrees, therefore the kingpin boss on the Lincoln would have been at a different angle. So it could be a miss match between the axle and spindles. I wonder if it's not a Lincoln axle? What is the length of the axle?

Ron

 

[Youngster]

Ok ... did some checking ....

Quoting from the 14th edition of Motors Repair Manual "Wheel Alignment Data" Charts;

Ford....
'37 to '48
Preferred Caster ... +6 3/4 degrees
Preferred Camber ... +5/8 degree
Toe in ... 1/16"
King Pin Inclination ... 8 degrees

Lincoln....
'37 to '42
Preferred Caster ... +4 degrees
Preferred Camber ... +1/2 degree
Toe in ... 1/16"
King Pin Inclination ... 4 1/4 degrees

Quoting from the "Caster and Camber Adjustment" section;
"If the caster and camber are out of specs, bending the axle is the only way to correct the conditions."

Quoting from "How to build a Traditional Hot Rod Ford" by Ron Bishop and Vern Tardel"
"The kingpin inclination of the Lincoln spindles is different from the Ford spindles. Ford spindles are 2-3 degrees positive on the axle, while the Lincoln spindles are about 1 degree negative on the same axle, requiring some adjustment to the beam."

Judging from this, The Lincoln spindles would give you the condition you have now. You would have 10 to 11 degrees camber.

Ron

 

[GAB]

It looks to me like he has a Lincoln axle with the standard Ford spindles. That would give a positive camber of 3-3/4° which is what it looks like in the photo.

According to Super Bell, their axles have an 8° kingpin inclination and their spindles have a 9° kingpin inclination which give a 1° positive camber angle. If that is the case, it would add another degree for a total of 4-3/4°.

 

[sschutze]

Just looking at the camber and wondering if the spindles are not on upside down. It looks like if the spindle was rotated 180 degrees the camber would be about right. I can hear a bunch of people saying I am nuts, but only takes a second to look. Pull one king pin and try it, you maybe surprised.

Thanks for the idea Duke, but the spindles only mount (correctly) one way. I did try to flip them, but the King Pin doesn't sit flush on top of the spindle that way. Also, it reverses the issue, instead of a positive camber (top of the wheels pointing outward) it creates a more severe negative camber (top of the wheels pointing inward). It was worth a try tho.

 

[sschutze]

The tires sit at about 5 degrees positive camber (top of the tires pointing out). I took one of the front spindles off to get a better look. I'm not sure if this will help, but it's worth a try.

 

[Duke]

That does pretty much confirm that the spindles are the wrong one's for sure or the axle is not set to the right Camber. Measure in king pin angle on the axle - that may point to what you have.

 

[sschutze]

Younger: Thanks for all the specs, unfortunately it's all greek to me. I measured the axle length, it's about 53 1/4 inches as close as I can tell (measured from the outside of the king pin sleeve on each side)

I jacked up the front end until the spindle (where the brake rotor mounts) was at 90 degrees

Then measured the angle of the King Pin, it's about 8 degrees.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what spindles I need to get?
I forund the name "Superbell" cast into a couple of the steering arms like GAB said, but nothing on the axle.
If I'm understanding this correctly, I need a spindle with about a 3 degree inclination to get the tires to verticle (my wheels sit at 5 degrees off verticle now).
Youngers post says Ford spindles would be just about perfect, but GAB says these are Ford spindles on a Lincoln axle.
I'm confused. I will need some help to understand all this.

 

[ruggs]

NW, If you would remove the spindles (since you will be anyway) level the axle and then you can get an acuate measurment of the king pin inclination. after that you will know exactly what axle you have as compared to Youngsters info. Good luck ........Ron

 

[Duke]

Just jumping the gun a little, But I think Youngster nailed it. Ford axle (37 to 48) with Lincoln spindles ( 37 to 42 ). However I would do Ruggs suggestion to be sure.

 

[sschutze]

NW, If you would remove the spindles (since you will be anyway) level the axle and then you can get an acuate measurment of the king pin inclination. after that you will know exactly what axle you have as compared to Youngsters info. Good luck ........Ron

4 - 4½ degrees. I suppose it is a Lincoln axle based on what Youngster said.
Does that mean I should be looking for Lincoln spindles?

 

[ruggs]

4 - 4½ degrees. I suppose it is a Lincoln axle based on what Youngster said.
Does that mean I should be looking for Lincoln spindles?

NW, I wouldn't make a call on that one, Youngster or Ted are your best bet for the correct answer....Ron

 

[Duke]

Good thing you rechecked the inclination. Looks like a Lincoln axle with ford spindles on it, now. With the Lincoln being 4 1/4 inclination and the ford spindle having an inclination of 8 degrees. That would give you a Camber of 3 3/4 degrees. The top of the tire would be leaning out. Just like it is now. So - I would say you need Lincoln spindles to match the Lincoln axle. Someone else please verify my reasoning on this, after all it is easy to spend another persons money.