Here's a couple pics. Also check my project log for more: http://www.tbucketeers.com/threads/big-redo-of-the-old-bucket.13677/
Fuel Injection
- Thread starter oino
- Start date
Gerry
Well-Known Member
Runs an early CalMap ECU and software. Semi sequential. Picks up a vac signal from a manifold run off each throttle body and as you can see the TPI is on the end of the LH bank.
Thats it.
O2 sensor is in the no2 header about level with the firewall and on the level part of the pipe nearest the ground.
This is really a race set up supplied by Kinsler for my particular car, but.... Mapping has been done to the car; e.g. weight, final drive ratio, tyre size and engine spec. Also its been written to give soft response up to 30% of the throttle and then all hell breaks out.
Thats it.
O2 sensor is in the no2 header about level with the firewall and on the level part of the pipe nearest the ground.
This is really a race set up supplied by Kinsler for my particular car, but.... Mapping has been done to the car; e.g. weight, final drive ratio, tyre size and engine spec. Also its been written to give soft response up to 30% of the throttle and then all hell breaks out.
Absolutely! This is a message we need to tack to the wall of this place; that things only get difficult when we allow them to be difficult. That's a bonus point to Grant.
Hi, Russ! It's good to see you.
I love these last three posts, because there are three, totally unique combinations shown there. I always admire it when people dare to be different, I think that is why I was always drawn to 6-cylinder drag cars. Because they were not the same-old, same-old. When someone can take on the challenge to build something outside the envelope, that always gets my attention.
Yazza Mike. I've been working on my OT cars for a few months now, but I still sneak in the back door to check up on you all once in a wile
Nice to see things still moving forward here.10/4 on the building outside of the box. it's also the best way to stimilate the old noodle.
Russ
Gerry
Well-Known Member
If i remember this was designed and used on NASCA cars and was never intended for road use.
Talked with Greg at Kinsler for 3 months by phone (Im in the UK) about the EFI. First had to convince him I did nt need a matched set of injectors that would run Alcohol or nitro, then explain the T was a road car. Went through everything by phone and fax.
Then asked them to do the mapping to my requirements.
So they sent the system over and I trial fitted it only to find its not designed to take a dizzy but work off a crank trigger. More calls and some head scratching Kinsler thought a MSD billet dizzy would fit so they sent me the Dizzy, Electronics etc at cost. This is why I cant recommended them enough, nothing was too much trouble for them to try and sort out.
Great.... got the dizzy and it still would not fit as it hit the rear throttle body to ram tube flange. So I machined the body and flange so that I could fit the dizzy in and have some movement to time it. They also made the ram tubes to the height I wanted, as it was not a standard part.
The engine is a GM 350HO from GM themselves and came with a dyno sheet at 357BHP. Kinlser say add 70 BHP for the injection and a few more for the MSD set up. So it looks like around 420-425 BHP. They also did a software simulation of the T for a 1/4 mile. aint going to tell you what that came up with, but their estimate for 0-60 was 3.1 second and around 22 mpg on light throttle.
Would nt like to buy it now as it was not cheap when I got it 20 years ago.
How you doing, Russ?
Gerry
Talked with Greg at Kinsler for 3 months by phone (Im in the UK) about the EFI. First had to convince him I did nt need a matched set of injectors that would run Alcohol or nitro, then explain the T was a road car. Went through everything by phone and fax.
Then asked them to do the mapping to my requirements.
So they sent the system over and I trial fitted it only to find its not designed to take a dizzy but work off a crank trigger. More calls and some head scratching Kinsler thought a MSD billet dizzy would fit so they sent me the Dizzy, Electronics etc at cost. This is why I cant recommended them enough, nothing was too much trouble for them to try and sort out.
Great.... got the dizzy and it still would not fit as it hit the rear throttle body to ram tube flange. So I machined the body and flange so that I could fit the dizzy in and have some movement to time it. They also made the ram tubes to the height I wanted, as it was not a standard part.
The engine is a GM 350HO from GM themselves and came with a dyno sheet at 357BHP. Kinlser say add 70 BHP for the injection and a few more for the MSD set up. So it looks like around 420-425 BHP. They also did a software simulation of the T for a 1/4 mile. aint going to tell you what that came up with, but their estimate for 0-60 was 3.1 second and around 22 mpg on light throttle.
Would nt like to buy it now as it was not cheap when I got it 20 years ago.
How you doing, Russ?
Gerry
old round fart
Well-Known Member
Gerry, I wonder if technology has improved since you got that? Maybe they can update the map or O2 sensor inputs. Just askin'!
Wild Mango
Member
I have done a few Megasquirt installations, mostly troubleshooting someone else's installation. Megasquirt is great BUT it presupposes electronic knowledge above the basic level, IMHO. Jerry's installation is beyond cool, what's not to like about eight injection stacks proudly rearing up out of the valley?. Because of the individual port and runner to each injector, I suppose unless you had an O2 sensor in each primary and the electronics to read them, you would have to assume each cylinder and injector was behaving the same and just read one primary for O2 as typical. Ditto for manifold vacuum, the vacuum signal from discrete runner systems like Jerry's is misleading because of the tiny air volume behind the butterfly. (that's why they jump immediately you hang your leg in it - no lean air slug there)
Doing ok Gerry. how about you? I hope that's an old pic of your engine. that or it's gathered a LOT of dust since I last saw it.
Fuel injected is the way to go, in my book, for just about any old car. This one is why I haven't been around here much lately. L-98 aluminum head 350 from a 90 Vette, along with it's ZF 6 speed trans. Just fired it, in it's new home, 3 days ago. it's gona be fun!!
Russ
Gerry
Well-Known Member
Sorry Russ, but with my old build buddy passing last year I dont seem to have the enthusiasm to get back to the T at the moment. It has progressed but is dusty from 6 months of sitting, through the winter.
As for the ECU, well... I talked to Kinsler last year and they have Gen7 out now which would update the mapping and also the interface (mine is on DOS, Cute Eh?) but and it s a big but, the cost is almost $3000, so i will stick with what I have. You never know it may turn out to be a 'classic'.
By the way, watch the ZF6 speeds, they suffer from Megatronic (valve body ECU, now built in to the transmission) failures. We get a lot of these with speed sensor faults. Trouble is that the S Sensors are part of the ECU so it means a whole replacement. Then you will find it needs to be coded to the car to reset the adaptions to zero etc etc.
Current cost for this in the UK is around $1750. They never seem to have problems with the mechanical side of the trans just the ECU.
At one point we have a research guy, from ZF, down to tell the car we had replaced the ECU and to accept it. Took him over 4 hours with laptops, Internet connections and phone calls just to get the things to fire up without going in to default. All modern European trans are going this way... ECU inside the trans, coded to the car and huge $$$$
G
As for the ECU, well... I talked to Kinsler last year and they have Gen7 out now which would update the mapping and also the interface (mine is on DOS, Cute Eh?) but and it s a big but, the cost is almost $3000, so i will stick with what I have. You never know it may turn out to be a 'classic'.
By the way, watch the ZF6 speeds, they suffer from Megatronic (valve body ECU, now built in to the transmission) failures. We get a lot of these with speed sensor faults. Trouble is that the S Sensors are part of the ECU so it means a whole replacement. Then you will find it needs to be coded to the car to reset the adaptions to zero etc etc.
Current cost for this in the UK is around $1750. They never seem to have problems with the mechanical side of the trans just the ECU.
At one point we have a research guy, from ZF, down to tell the car we had replaced the ECU and to accept it. Took him over 4 hours with laptops, Internet connections and phone calls just to get the things to fire up without going in to default. All modern European trans are going this way... ECU inside the trans, coded to the car and huge $$$$
G
Mike
Well-Known Member
Nice Corvette, Russ!
I keep thinking it might be time to set up a general hot rodders' forum, so there is a good place to talk about projects like yours.
Gerry, it is just a matter of using the currency that sounds the best. £1,951 sounds a lot better than $3,000.
Sorry to hear about your friends passing Gerry. I've lost a few over the past several years myself. Also going up North tomorrow to spread my mothers ashes. The best therapy is to get back to work on the project. gota keep movin' forward.
No ECU in my ZF. you must be working on newer ones. also std electronic speed sensor in mine, but I replaced it with a dual unit that gives info to the ECU (7727 GM unit) and also has a pass-through to run the mechanical Vette speedometer.
Your DOS system should work fine. it ain't rocket science
Take care my friend.
Russ
putz
Member
I will have to go along with the mounting placement of GT63 due to the problem with mounting it in one tube it is only reading one cylinder. If you have a bad plug in one in one of the others the sensor won't read it. You want the sensor to read as many as possible. This sensor adjusts how much fuel is needed by its rich or lean readings in the Exhaust.
I think you'll be very happy with the FAST unit. I've had mine for several months and it is a real treat to be able to adjust idle, AFR, accelerator pump all with the little handheld control, and read a bunch of engine parameters on it.
Working on getting the return line done for my efi system.
RPM, put an extra bung in the bottom of my tank for a efi upgrade.
But, after talking to a tech at fast and the guy at fastmanefi.com. I'm being told that the return can't feed from the bottom
and needs to feed from the top of the tank.
Is that true?
Any problems with feeding from the top?
They said I could put it in the filler neck or in the top of the tank up high.
RPM, put an extra bung in the bottom of my tank for a efi upgrade.
But, after talking to a tech at fast and the guy at fastmanefi.com. I'm being told that the return can't feed from the bottom
and needs to feed from the top of the tank.
Is that true?
Any problems with feeding from the top?
They said I could put it in the filler neck or in the top of the tank up high.
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Oino, the best place for the return is the bottom of the tank! That's where mine is. I would ask those guys why they think top.
Returning to the top of the tank can aerate the fuel. And I've even heard of the possibility for static electricity being generated by returning fuel to the top. That sounds over the top (pun!), but I wouldn't take the chance.
Now a bottom return must be leak-proof, so I use AN fittings and hose. You don't want a puddle of gas under your car.
Returning to the top of the tank can aerate the fuel. And I've even heard of the possibility for static electricity being generated by returning fuel to the top. That sounds over the top (pun!), but I wouldn't take the chance.
Now a bottom return must be leak-proof, so I use AN fittings and hose. You don't want a puddle of gas under your car.
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