New Water pump - gasket problems

[Robert]

My 350 Chevy on my bucket still running a bit hotter than desired, so I broke down and bought a cast iron chromed supposedly "high volume" water pump from JEGS.

When the water pump came, I opened the box, inside another box that was labeled only "chrome water pump" (no mention of anything high volume).

Anyway, no gaskets included.

Went to my local auto parts guy, requested some thicker "rubberized" gaskets, he said all he had was plain paper and to use form-a-gasket #2 (thin coat each side).

I scraped all mating surfaces well with razor blade, applied gaskets coated both sides with form-a-gasket #2, waited 10 minutes, bolted it all up tight.

But when I started refilling the radiator coolant started leaking out the lowest portion of the intake side of the water pump out of the spot where there is an internal hole the same size as a bolt hole but no bolt goes there, argggggg !


Tried further tightening the bolts but no use, it still leaked.

So I tore it all down and did it all over again like it was done previously, with blue silicone only.

Unfortunately, I put a lot of blue silicone around the mating surfaces of that strange hole that has no bolt on the water pump intake side - - appears to me sorta like a relief hole.

Now I'm thinking that if that hole is plugged with silicone that could be affecting my water pump performance ?

I install submersible pumps for a living and should know better.

Seems I recall all pumps benefit from having a larger volume intake side and a bit smaller output side, that's probably the purpose of the extra hole drilled all the way through so coolant can bypass the pump cavity ?

Did I screw this one up ?

Feeling like I need to tear it back down again.

 

[Robert]

Hold on just a minute, I found this info:

And by the way, my thermostat is already drilled with 2 holes about 3/32" each side - - - and heater hose bypass is plugged on a T Bucket.

From what I read below - - - wouldn't this little "bypass hole" actually allow a sort of a small "recirculation" from the bypass area to the main coolant intake hole - - - which would cut down the efficiency of the water pump ?

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/187700/

Also this, from http://www.trifive.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-59036.html

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[john dioli]

good stuff thanks for posting that might be why my el camino bounces water temp till it warms up
john

 

[Screaming Metal]

-----Did I screw this one up ?-----

Not Hardly! You changed your water pump. Were the gaskets the same, as far as holes? Don't care about the thickness right now. IF you pulled the bolts and they were sealed with silicon, you need to reseal them. If your saying theres a leak at one of the waterpump bolts, it probably goes into the waterjacket.
Clean out the hole good, clean the bolt good, get some of the OLD black semi-permanent Permatex, put a little on the bolt threads on up to just below the head. Add a little to the threaded hole....then reassemble and try.

The holes that we add to our thermostats, are bypass's themselves. There alot of bypass configurations that can help keep the cooling system efficiency up there. There are ways of running your heater hoses to help cool your motor. IF we had a heater....
And yes, the J hose that goes between the intake manifold and the top on the waterpump actually allows for circulation when the thermo is closed.
As far as heat goes, like we originally said, if your not going past 210, your probably OK.
Add a little water wetter, could always decrease the WP Pulley dia. to get more flow also.

 

[Keeper]

Couple things to check. I went through 3 water pumps until I got one that would fit and seal.

First had crappy mating surfaces due to being "rebuilds" the pitting would not allow it to seal no matter how much gasket sealer I used.

Second also had some pitting, but the surfaces were not parallel so it would not seal at all.

Third one was hitting the timing cover, not allowing me to tighten it enough to seal things. This one I ended up using as the sealing surfaces were good, just not enough clearance to seal.

So I took the new water pump, pulled off the back cover and removed the stock thick rubber gasket, I used #2 blue to seal the pump cover. Once I did that it gave me enough clearance to tighten the pump down to seal it up.

 

[409T]

Third one was hitting the timing cover, not allowing me to tighten it enough to seal things.

This happens a lot when people buy a billet or 2 piece timing chain cover. Some times you can remove the pan head screws from the back, counter sink the holes and put back in flat head screws to gain enough clearance.

Robert, do you have an other than stock timing chain cover?

 

[Screaming Metal]

Both Keeper and 409T both have good points. IF the surface is pitted and not flat. Thats easy enough to check. A flat surface or granite plate or a piece of flat glass and a feeler gauge.
This thing sealed with the 1st pump, unless it was a longer pump. That means probably has a stock dressed up cover. But Maybe the custom pump has ordered might be shorter, ie, surfaced or milled on its sealing face, there are waterpump spacers for such things....And thick shim gaskets as well

 

[Screaming Metal]

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/water-pump-spacers

While you are there dealing with your pump, look into your waterjacket and see how clean it is. This will give you a idea of how the maint. was kept up with.
While we're trying to get your car to run cooler, while you have your tool box open, throw in a 165 thermostat. That, with a clean radiator, a hi-flow pump, newish belts, once the manifold leak is cured, theres no reason why your motor shouldn't run at 160-170....

Me, myself, I'm running a electric pump, since I'm running electric fans also....

 

[Keeper]

I am running a stock cover.

The waterpump had been rebuilt and when they flattened the gasket surfaces, it moved it to close to the timing cover. Pulling out the super thick rubber gasket they put on the pump gave me the clearance I needed.

 

[Robert]

-----Did I screw this one up ?-----

Not Hardly! You changed your water pump. Were the gaskets the same, as far as holes? Don't care about the thickness right now. IF you pulled the bolts and they were sealed with silicon, you need to reseal them. If your saying theres a leak at one of the waterpump bolts, it probably goes into the waterjacket.
Clean out the hole good, clean the bolt good, get some of the OLD black semi-permanent Permatex, put a little on the bolt threads on up to just below the head. Add a little to the threaded hole....then reassemble and try.

The holes that we add to our thermostats, are bypass's themselves. There alot of bypass configurations that can help keep the cooling system efficiency up there. There are ways of running your heater hoses to help cool your motor. IF we had a heater....
And yes, the J hose that goes between the intake manifold and the top on the waterpump actually allows for circulation when the thermo is closed.
As far as heat goes, like we originally said, if your not going past 210, your probably OK.
Add a little water wetter, could always decrease the WP Pulley dia. to get more flow also.

Gaskets were the same, ended up using blue silicon for everything (incl. sealing holes). Tested it for an hour drive tonight, no leaks, engine temp. about 10 degrees cooler overall - - don't know if new water pump responsible or if bypass holes in new 160 thermostat responsible, maybe combo of both.

 

[Robert]

This happens a lot when people buy a billet or 2 piece timing chain cover. Some times you can remove the pan head screws from the back, counter sink the holes and put back in flat head screws to gain enough clearance.

Robert, do you have an other than stock timing chain cover?

No stock cover, although current cover is chromed thin sheet metal, seems to me water pump fit OK when I installed it, will check for air gap tommorrow.

 

[Robert]

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/water-pump-spacers

While you are there dealing with your pump, look into your waterjacket and see how clean it is. This will give you a idea of how the maint. was kept up with.
While we're trying to get your car to run cooler, while you have your tool box open, throw in a 165 thermostat. That, with a clean radiator, a hi-flow pump, newish belts, once the manifold leak is cured, theres no reason why your motor shouldn't run at 160-170....

Me, myself, I'm running a electric pump, since I'm running electric fans also....

Yep, I am now running a 160 thermostat with 4 bypass holes at .203 inch per hole as per details by race mechanic above. Getting about 10 degrees overall lower temps.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Yep, I am now running a 160 thermostat with 4 bypass holes at .203 inch per hole as per details by race mechanic above. Getting about 10 degrees overall lower temps.
?
Have you found the vaccum leak on the intake yet? Once you do, and get that fixed, it'll be time to run it and check some temps.

With everything as it is now, what temp does your gauge show while your going down the road? Take it out and run it some, let us know the temp.. Now, after that, let it sit there idling and see what temp you have.

If all these seem like the Temps OK, I'd say your ready to dive into some heavy stop and go traffic, but keep your eye on the temp. Good luck....

 

[Screaming Metal]

Let me suggest this also....there are several small cheap 'good quality' mechanical gauges you can get, get one that screws directly into the waterjacket. Check the temps, going thru the same motions you did with the 'other' gauge. This way you can see the difference and check the accuracy of your 1st gauge....
Once that is eliminated (error of said 1st gauge, if any), we'll know if the motors temp is OK. Does it still 'Smell' hot?