pinion and shock mounting

[Jeff]

anyone see any reason one can't set the pinion close before tacking it in? The reason I ask is my shock brackets on the frame follow the rake at about 5 degrees and I would like to keep the shock mounts near the same or 1 degree less on the rear end housing so that if I need a little more pinion I can get it without turning the shock/ 4 link brackets out of shape. I know they should be 90 degrees to the floor but they were on the frame when I got it and I would like to use them. They are stainless bolted on with six bolts. I moved them back and can use two of the original bolt holes and everything is square and in order with the engine and trans mocked I have 1.5 to 2 degrees in the pinion with 1/2 inch between parallel center lines of trasnmission and pinion and a 15 inch center to center of the u-joint drive shaft. If it sounds good to you all it"s. ready to tack up. I should add it's all set at 12.5 inch ride height.

Thanks jeff

 

[2old2fast]

pic's sure would help ...
dave

 

[Jeff]

Well I am questioning the engine mounting now. Distance from the rear of the engine to the rear of the frame is 67 inches. Engine is slightly tilted back so allow a couple inches for the tunnel ram clearance so make it 65 tunnel ran is no on the block. I could sit the body on but not by myself. I don't want to gap the firewall to engine too much. I want to keep it tight. besides I need the room up front for a SBF water pump. I will try to get some pics up tomorrow.

 

[RPM]

Do you have your body yet?

 

[one finger john]

As an aside, it seems that if you are starting fresh and don't know what you are going to do as far as wheel base, body positioning, engine/trans placement, etc.. I would start at the back and position, situate, arrange, and damn near everything else except paint and chrome.
Basically plan from the rear end forward instead of the front end back.

Amirite ?

John

 

[Jeff]

Yes I have the body. Wood is already in it had interior but needs replaced the cloth is bad, I don't even have to paint it for now. it's grey with blue flame job. Needs repainted at some point but not top on my list. Getting it on a running assembly is no. 1. right now. I think I have all the parts to do that at this point just need to get it all together now. I can't start at the rear in total. the frame was started and already had components tacked on it. The wheel base right now is 99- 100 inches. I once measured 99 then did some shifting and ended up at 100. Moved a few more times and need to take another measurement. I like where the rear is set and it is square to the frame. I think I can turn the trans mounting around and get about three inches rearward on the engine. i really liked where everything was sitting. I found the body to engine distance off because my Spitit Industries engine mounts were about 1/8 to 3/16 short of reaching the frame rails on the tapered frame. and I got to searching for ways out and decided maybe I needed to take a measurement to see about shifting it rearward. I figured an inch at most, what a surprize I got some where around 7 to 8 inches less an inch or two with the tunnel ram installed. The frame was set up for SBC and turbo transmission. I went with SBF and Turbo 400. using the same mounting position for the trans and removing the chevy brackets. Thought I would be ok and din't think to check body to engine clearance but I was wrong. It's all in my favor at this point I get to move the engine back. the engine mounts should reach the rails with ease. Will probably end up with about a 4 inch or so shorter drive shaft. Glad I didn't get that far. The parts for it will be in tomorrow but I have to get the details reworked out on that after making engine adjustments. I got tires wheels shocks engine is done just needs put on the dyno at the shop yet. I still need to get the trans together, but have about all the parts now except maybe a new sprag. and any other mods I do. Probaly will get a new pump to put on it. I have the converter already. Anyway it's about all here just needs assembled and it's so close yet so far. I don't really want to tack anything till it's all mocked up. I am using a setup block and empty trans case with the bell attached for mock up. The one thing I know I am lacking is a window frame. Got the sanchons for mounting and cloth top with bows. I am realy hoping to get this tacked up over the weekend. The floor in the garage is not near level which doesn't help either. I have to measure eveything off of a leveled straight edge. Like tubing or what ever I can find to use that is long enough for the job. I don't know who poured it but they didn't intend to do much work in there. We are talking an 1 1/2 to 2 inches in the length of a the 23T out of level down hill all the way from the garage door. I can't even imagine what the total is from end to end of the garage. Well that's where I am at. I really need to get something together at this point. I just keep running the numbers figures and positioning through my head. lost sleep doing it this morning. No wonder they call it the car that ate my brain.

thanks jeff

 

[Jeff]

here are some photos

 

[PotvinGuy]

Shoot, Jeff, you are better prepared than most. I'll reread and look at pics and let you know if I see anything. Couple ideas: ongoing sketches or pics with dimensions and angles will help you later after you've forgotten (like tomorrow). And a digital level:

..is a dandy addition to your tool box. I use mine on everything: the pic is aligning the front end.

Those rear weenies are gigantic! What size?

 

[Jeff]

tires are 31 X 18.5 Hoosiers going on Centerlines. Yea I been at this for three years collecting all the parts. Engine is done Shop just needs to put it on the dyno. started engine last octoer after a year of collecting parts as I could afford. I have almost ever thing needed and need to make something of it. Not building a show car it's a go car for Sunday drive. LOL I am so close I can tast it but am lacking in the knoledge to get it to where it needs to be with what I got. Too many questions and not enough answers. I found this engine to firewall issue by mistake while trying to make my mounts fit the aditional 1/8 inch or so gap. I then thought about measuring to squze ever thing rearward slightly and found I ended up with about eight inches or so of gap, but havent set the body on as it takes two people to do that.

 

[2old2fast]

"looks" like the rear needs to go back a bit.... frame needs to come down so as not so much "up" angle in the 4-bar, those "should" be near level at ride height.... need to beg or borrow an engine hoist so you can trial-fit the body...
dave

 

[Jeff]

Ok I will try to check it tomorrow. Right now the wheel base is between 98.5 and 99 inches closet to the 98.5 best I could measure. overall frame length is 104 inches. From the rear of the engine to the lower weld on the kick up section of the frame rail is 50 3/4 inches. This is supposedly is a total performance frame if tht help any. Right now the fram has 5 degrees of rake as it sits. intake manifold at the front is 2 degrees down from the rear. engine is sitting 2 degree down at the transmission. Measured drive shaft length as it sits is at 15 inches center to center on the u-joints. I have the ends and tubing for the drive shaft but will wait until it's set in stone to have the tube cut for it. I sill try to get a scetch of it posted soon.

Thank You dave,
Jeff

 

[Jeff]

Moved the 4 link bars up two inches with shock mount adjustment. not level but much closer to it. I will try to get another pic posted. I ordered one of those fancy levels to work with. I am sure it will be most helpful in setting up the frame. Like now I can laser the scrub line rather than straight edge it. I am using a 9 inch pan on the engine shooting of 4 inches on pan. I am using a 3 inch drop front axle. As fro moving rear end to the rear. How much do you think I need to go. I will have to cut the tacs of the brackets and re tac them. right now the wheel base is 98 1/2+ just slightly over. I may get the body set on tomorrow. well today now.

Thank you,
jeff

 

[2old2fast]

Reason I suggestedmoving the rear back is to get your coilover mounts parallel to each other[mounting bolts.... I wouldn't be concerned about wheelbase dimensions, it is what it is..... remember , the higher you mount the engine/trans in the chassis , the less leg/foot room you'll have..... I'll measure back of block to firewall dimension on mine , even though I'm running a sbc w/tunnel ram , the results probably work out the same.... your frame was setup for a watts link [two tabs on the frame] in case you were wondering..
dave

 

[PotvinGuy]

Jeff, how did you decide ride height in rear? I see the temporary links where the coilovers will go. I mention this because in my build I didn't plan for how the weight of the engine and tranny and other parts would compress the springs and throw off all my careful planning.

 

[Jeff]

I think I can parallel the shock mounting with a little more coil over spacer on the lower mount if need be? I been thinking about it off and on today as how the best handle the issue. I would like that measurement it would be helpful I am sure. I am trying to get the engine down but don't want it to run down hill when done either. Would like header near parallel to roadway. Rear pinion is much high than trans now so I need to see what that does too. Pinion was 2 degrees with near 1/2 in between parallel lines of the trans and pinion. I am using flat bar with holes on 12 1/2 center for ride height so rear should be close. Allowing 1 to 1 1/2 for front spring ride height. think it's enough. I think I well wait to see where the engine ends up and drive shaft length, then take a better look at the wheel base.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[Jeff]

Well after moving every thing but the engine around a ten plus more times. I opted to have another hole milled in the shock mount bracket an inch and a half higher. That will put the bracket back on the rear end as it sits plus put the mounting back to the center hole in the shock mount. Which will make for 1 inch up or down adjustment. Should get the parts back tomorrow evening. I just couldn't find a sweet spot as it was. I tried every thing I could think of. I did lower the front an inch or so to allow for the weight on the spring. It put the axle about an inch and a half low but it did wonders with the engine position to the ground. I am hoping to be able to tack some parts together this coming weekend if I can get it all laid out again. Not too worried about the engines plane just the forward and aft.

 

[2old2fast]

Jeff , measurement .....rear edge of block to firewall =1" .... if you look in "how to post pictures for the computer illiterate " , mines' the white T....
dave

 

[Jeff]

Here are photos of the new 4 link position after milling new mount hole in upper bracket. I din't find the pic of your car yet. Where do I find the link? What is it under on the site?

Thanks
Jeff

 

[2old2fast]

That looks a bunch better [4-link angle]
second thread [Ithink} in the "lounge" section...
you understand those upper shock brackets were built so the shock mounts in the upper tube/hole...
dave
Lower shock mount was even w/ rear axle centerline MOL
maybe 1 of the mods could move the pic of my car to my avatar ???

 

[Jeff]

You maybe able to click on your name at the right upper and go down to avatar under the drop down list and select it to post your pic as avatar. is should ask for the photo and you can get it off your PC by name or number if you know where it is at on your pc. I know the mount's were for the upper hole but my shocks are too short to reach at 12 1/2 ride height and use the 4 link mounts. just one of those rookie mistakes. I have some 1 inch stainless bar stock to drill eventually to fill the gap but thought about just moving the bracket farther back and putting the shock between the mount. I only need to put 4 holes in the frame. just have to find the weld tube for it. I have been looking for it. I will need it to move the engine trans bracket rearward also. 1 1/2 inch tubing. There should be a source out there but I haven't found it yet. I found weld bungs but nothing long enough for 1 1/2 tubing. What is in the frame now was drilled all the way though and welded in.