Rear radius rod shackles

[Al Rich]

I need some help.. I removed the rear axle housing, had some repairs done on it and reinstalled in the T-Bucket. The shackle between the radius rod (I think that's what it's called) and the rear leaf spring was horizontal when I took off the shackles. I have several questions about installing the shackles...
1. What's the secret to overcoming the tension of the leaf spring? Spreading it, because attaching one side is a breeze, but the other side...oh man, that was a real booger.
2. I placed the shackles back in the same position, square ends of the shackle bolts mounted in the shackle brackets and they were horizontal until the little bump at the end of the driveway and now the shackles are vertical.
3. I really, really don't want to fight that leaf spring again...what do I need to do to get the shackles in the correct position?
I need some serious help and any guidance is greatly appreciated.
AL

 

[Mike J]

Could you get another pic of the whole rear, showing both sides and spring? Keep an eye on that slice in the side wall.

 

[2old2fast]

For whatever reason , if the shackles hung correctly before , the mounting points at the bones are closer or the spring is longer , take your pick ... what was done to the rear axle while it was out ??
dave

 

[railroad]

The nuts on the shackles are either lock nuts or have a cotter key to keep them on. Tightening them down using the torque to hold the nuts in place is incorrect. You may have the bushings squeezed too tight for the spring and shackles to move. If you have poly bushings you can lube them. Rubber bushings normally do not need lube, but if it will not attack the rubber it will help. You also need to check your rear wheel cylinders. I see some leaking. You will need to replace the shoes if they are brake fluid contaminated. I forgot about the leaf spring installation. It may not work on that high arc spring, but I use a 2X4 and c-clamps to compress the spring. Be aware this is a loaded trap, if you put a lot of pressure on it. Some people use the center bolt hole and a length of all thread rod with some double nuts and pull a board or piece of metal toward the spring to pull some arc out of it. You will have to do the center mount after the shackles with this this method.
be careful and good luck,

 

[BRUCE DYDA]

Personaly , I think the shackles are in the correct possistion, any rearend movement is transfered directly to the spring and when the suspention colaspes (bump) the spring gets longer and the shackle rotates CCW but not to the point of over-center and locking. With the shackle in a horizontle possistion the rear axle can see movment without any spring energy and would just bottom the spring out on the first thing it would come into contact with.

 

[2old2fast]

With the shackles in the position they are , there is no lateral control of the rear housing , that is why they should be in tension side to side.

dave

 

[BRUCE DYDA]

There should not be any lateral movment anyway because the rear control arms are fixed and if the front mounting points are narrower that the rear mounts, The only movement with that set up is up & down, Twist is controled by flex. Maybe the rear control arms should be bolted on the other side of the rear end tabs thus widening the stance and putting the spring eye towards the inside of the shackle mount.

 

[2old2fast]

^^^^ Disinformation ! Split wishbones become basically an old chevy "truck arm" suspension similar to what Nascar uses... don't think I've ever seen either w/o a panhard bar . There has to be something to control lateral movement .... When Henry designed the T , that lateral movement was controlled by the transverse spring in tension ... whether the bones are split or not doesn't matter , lateral movement MUST be controlled !!
dave

 

[BRUCE DYDA]

Without a bigger picture, we dont know what the rest of the suspention looks like. Maybe it does have track locater, What I am also seeing it a coil spring on the shock besides the shock being layed over so much that it is only traveling 3/4" when the rear end travels 2".
If you were to take that spring and pull both sides in to where the shackles were parallel to the ground and then release the spring they would either return to the picture veiw or they would continue to rotate CW and bang into the shock. Grab the shackle with a large cresent and pull it CCW and the thing will overcenter and lock.

 

[Al Rich]

I would like to thank everyone for their input. I need to put my cards on the table as far as automotive terminology and my experience is concerned. I've never worked on an auto prior to Jan of this year. So... please, keep the replies on the same level as a 10-yr old. Attached additional pictures as requested.
Mile J. and Bruce Dyda: Picture showing both sides. Cut is cosmetic, looks bad but isn't.
Bruce Dyda; What is a "track locator"? Yes the coil over shocks are laid over, but I don't see how to change this odd setup. Using a large crescent, the leaf spring does lock up on the shock- good catch.
Dave; I had the axle housing repaired at Pyle Bros in Baytown, TX. the end of the axle housing where the wheel bearing/seal is was buggered up. Shop welded anther end on the axle housing and did some other minor work.
Railroad; The leak on the tire is from the axle sealing leaking, it has been repaired, just didn't pressure wash the tire yet.
Dave; You totally lost me with your last 2 replies. "Split wishbones?" and discussing "tension, side to side." The only thing I know about split wishbones is the turkey at Thanksgiving, LOL.

Took it out for a drive this evening, and the rear bottoms out over bumps in the road. Didn't used to do that unless I had a heavy person riding with me. So I have something different in the rear suspension. I received a new pair of shackles to from Speedway today and they are different in that the new shackles don't have the squares (see picture).. Humm - they will be a LOT easier to install as I don't have to line up the square ends.
I'll install the new shackles this week.
Any ideas, comments, concerns about the set-up with the coil over shocks? To me, it seems rather strange that they lean so far over. But I don't see how to change the way they are mounted.
I want to thank everyone again for your replies to my post.
AL

 

[2old2fast]

Al , & others PLEASE don't take this the wrong way ... If you don't understand the terms & tech. associated w/ suspension , then ,like we all did at one time or another, you need to either educate yourself [no , you can't learn everything on a forum] OR , find someone to repair/refit your car so that it's safe & functions properly... I know , I'm becoming a curmudgeon , but it's taken a lifetime to learn the little I know , so if you want to enjoy your car [within a reasonable amount of time], find someone who'll help you "hands on"... much simpler for everyone involved IMO.

dave

 

[putz]

First off why coilovers and leaf springs ?

 

[Al Rich]

Al , & others PLEASE don't take this the wrong way ... If you don't understand the terms & tech. associated w/ suspension , then ,like we all did at one time or another, you need to either educate yourself [no , you can't learn everything on a forum] OR , find someone to repair/refit your car so that it's safe & functions properly... I know , I'm becoming a curmudgeon , but it's taken a lifetime to learn the little I know , so if you want to enjoy your car [within a reasonable amount of time], find someone who'll help you "hands on"... much simpler for everyone involved IMO.

dave

Dave, I haven't taken your reply the wrong way and I'm in total agreement with you, both that I must learn and that you are truly a killjoy. Believe it or not, I have learned from you. Thank you for mentioning split wishbones because I now know what "split wishbones" are, and that's what I have on the car. With a career spanning 35 years in general and commercial aviation maintenance...Built and flew a Benson B8M Gyrocopter, assisted in building an RV4 and worked 2-years on the restoration of a WWII Helldiver; haven't ran across an aircraft that utilizes wishbones, leaf springs, sway bars, radius rods, coil over shocks, etc. No, I can't learn everything from this forum, but I've learned a lot from the people who have shared their knowledge on this forum. I'm looking for someone who'll help "hands on" with my car and hopefully I can return the favor, but so far I've only met your fellow curmudgeons.
Dave, should you decide to walk a little closer to "The Edge" and build an aircraft in your garage, let me know.
AL

 

[Al Rich]

First off why coilovers and leaf springs ?

Hello Putz, The only honest answer is; other than it looks cool, I don't have a clue why the car has both coil overs and leaf springs. Is this type of configuration good, bad or neither?

 

[HenrysT]

The coil springs look like "add-on" to a standard shock. Is one of the leaf spring(s) broken? Was the shackles always horizontal BEFORE you removed the rear end? Wondering if the leaf was/is too soft, hence the "helper" coils added? Did the clamps on the coil spring/shock slip?

 

[BRUCE DYDA]

Honestly , that whole set up is a mess.
You have the front of the control arms bolted to a strap hanging 6" down from the frame, shocks work their best 10-15* off of verticial, track locator is also known as a panhard bar, a link that goes from frame rail to rear end housing with pivots on both ends to allow travel up an down while keeping the rear centered in frame. Right now with the coilovers at that angle the rear is fighting both coil springs to keep it centered.
If I had to fix this I would first box the front mounts and make a desission on either coil overs or leaf spring and rehang the shocks so that they work

 

[Bennett]

"track locator is also known as a panhard bar, a link that goes from frame rail to rear end housing with pivots on both ends to allow travel up an down while keeping the rear centered in frame."

Bruce,
Good job explaining this!

 

[old round fart]

Those look like what they used to call helper or overload springs. I would take them off and see what the springs look like. I think they are fighting each other. The one shot with both shackles in the picture looks like the shackles are at different ankles. There is a bind going on somewhere. John

 

[jcunning]

When you say the shackles were turned sideways, were they turned in towards the center of the car? If so, this might account for an increase in the tension of the spring and an increase in the ride height of the car. If this is the case it appears that both bolts may be mounted 90 degrees off of where they need to be. As stated before, please be careful installing this spring as it can get ugly quickly.

 

[BRUCE DYDA]

The hex on the shackle bolt acts as a stop for the strap to keep one from overtightening the nut.The "bolt" is round so that it rotates and the hex is machined into it and the strap bottoms out on the shoulder between the round and hex.