VP racing fuel

[railroad]

I realize there is much more about the various fuels available than I know, so I am asking this in the simplest terms. I have a 99 Mustang Cobra with a KB supercharger, 9 lbs of boost, headers, hi flow cats. The local VP dealer said I needed MS 109 for that combination. I planned on using it to add an octane cushion to the 93 octane pump gas I run. I added a couple of gallons to I think a 16 gallon tank. Not pushing the engine, it did not feel good, so I have not used it since. My second application was to be a 2013 Shelby GT500. I bought a kit to add 100 hp. It ups the boost to 19 lbs, throttle body, cold air, plugs and tune. I mentioned adding the MS 109 to the gasoline with the same intentions as the other car. The agent for the tuner, Jon Lund, said under no circumstances to add it to the tank. He stated the tune was not designed for the oxygenated fuel. I understand what oxygenated is, and that VP uses ethanol to achieve this. Some of the 93 octane pump gas I run has ethanol, which the cars were designed to handle. Now I have about 8 gallons of MS 109, I am afraid to run in anything. I considered putting it in my wifes 03 Escape V6, but do not need any problems. I have a 2013 F150 ecoboost truck. The manual states it performs better with higher octane fuels 87 vs 93, and recommends it for towing. You know what my next question is. Can I add the MS 109 to the truck as an octane booster. I have emailed VP, so I am not trying to lock someone down on something critical, just trying to get a better understanding of where to use this krypton. If this needs to be moved to the Lounge, please excuse my error, and handle appropriately. I have a lot of confidence in the knowledge on board here, hence my excuse for posting here, even though it is not about my T. On a side note. I have a can of C9 VP fuel. My T was about empty and I topped it off with it. What a difference. I cannot get my hand off the key before it starts and runs so clean. So you will not have to search, I am running a stock 302 Mustang roller engine.
Thanks for any insight and my apologies as noted.

 

[Screaming Metal]

While I don't really know what exactly your asking, I think this might help you some....

http://www.dragzine.com/tech-storie...ng-fuels-lineup-of-unleaded-performance-fuels

I think I now know.....your wanting to know how to match the fuels to the needs and the car. OK, here goes....
To run certain fuels, you need to know what certain motors do and how they do it.
Most all new performance Mustangs, and Hemis like alot of octane, a fast burning fuel with alot of punch to it. Ethanol IS a good fuel. I don't like it, cause I'm old school. Ethanol is a fuel designed for computer cars, plain and simple.
You can get 2 identical cars, put them side by side, and try diff. fuels, and one will always be a little different.

Diff. fuels do diff. things. Think of them like diff. tools.... Your Mustang will probably prefer the 105,. where the Hemis will like the 109. It all depends on compression ratio, how hot the motor likes to run, how much revability the motor has.
I'm not gonna get into the ingredents and the tech stuff, you can look that up for the diff. grades, but theres alot, AND I MEAN ALOT of blending and mixing going on to get more power from certain grades....
That being said....building performance motors, we have alot of diff. fuels on hand.
Some folks will go with VPRacing Fuels, others will go with another brand, some folks will do Av. gas, etc.
The fuel manufactures will have charts that best describe their purpose and which cars they are intended for....
While I haven't told you what you can run in your car, you are the best judge of that yourself. This, my friend, can get complicated....
Just don't limit yourself to one certain product, find one that runs good, and stick to it. And try others in small amounts (like less than a 1/4 of a tank). That way, if your not satisfied with the performance, you can top off your tank with something you'll know that'll deliver.

 

[Screaming Metal]

The MS 109 would probably be good in that Late Model Truck. Yes, you can mix it in without burning anything up or causing any damage....

 

[railroad]

Thanks Screaming Metal. You did pick up on what I needed to know through my ramblings.
Your reply fits right in with the feed back I have received from my tuner and VP.
I think my tuner might be a little more conservative with his reply. He suggest I run either 93 pump or MS109 exclusively, not blending. My interpretation of his position is the 2 fuels do not blend sufficiently to achieve an average blend or octane number, causing the computer to correct for the inconsistent changes.
I would think, especially on return fuel systems you would get a good blend.
I will err on the side of caution and not run the ms109 with his tunes, but did receive this from VP this morning.
The MS-109 is unleaded and should blend fine with pump gas and be safe in your truck.
We are definitely on the same page about 1/4 tank method.
Thanks for your time and experience.

 

[Screaming Metal]

On the blending, I would do it 1/4 tank at a time. If you run almost completely empty, put 1/4 tank in of something you want to try, then add to your tank your own regular fuel. If you can't tell a difference, next time, do 1/2 a tank, and try it. Then 3/4 of a tank. I would say at 3/4s of a tank, if your motor likes it, you'll start feeling a little difference. Then try a full tank at that point.
Let me just say this, if you've got a stock Mustang, and you try premium, notice how it runs. Then try the regular. Now, this is pump gas, not racing fuels. If you notice no change, go with the regular. That added cost isn't doing anything for you. But, I'm referring to the folks that have a stock Mustang, not the blown performance models....

If your car is blown, such as a Mustang/ Cadallic....you'll notice you have low compression. With the onboard computer controlling things, it will vary your timing and mixture to accommodate different fuels on-the-fly.
The trend of the future is to go with smaller motors, go with turbochargers since theres no parasitic drive loss, and make as much power as you can within reason.
We're getting to where we can build a turbo system without a lot of turbo lag....

 

[Wild Mango]

Hey Screamin'. Makes us down here in the South Pacific feel quite fortunate as far as the fuel and emissions regulations we get to work with. I wonder, engine damage wise with an old classic without ECU and knock sensors, the RON is the fuel rating to watch as providing some insurance against detonation. And even then without a careful tune up to take advantage of the extra octane and energy, a high energy, high RON fuel like VP 109 may not show improvement in performance even while presumably giving better insurance against detonation. Of course with an ECU controlled engine I imagine you have a different scenario altogether, and with the variety of fuels you have I don't envy you tuners over there !
BTW here we say about alcohol fuels, Methanol is for racing on dirt, Ethanol is for the Jack and Ginger Ale after the car is back in the trailer

 

[Screaming Metal]

Yes, its a good Hi-Perf. fuel that you have to design the motor around. There are carbs made now specially to run on the stuff. The old classics run very poorly on it, unless you decide to run EFI's.
In the late 70's when they tried to push the crap down our throats, this time they've succeeded. I'd much rather eat corn or drink the corn....but it also helps the farmers to stay busy....like they don't have enough to do growing food stuffs....
Its just government bullcrap.
Anyway, the computers can adjust for the variance in the fuels. The turbocharging helps out a lot in the performance of a ethanol motor. Blowers are still good, I prefer them, but the turbos can last as long or longer. Only problems with the turbos is the underhood temps, pipes rot out if not ss, snailhousings rust and corrode. Theres really less to go wrong....simpler.
Naturally aspirated motors need the carbs designed for the ethanol. Because of the variance from service station to servicestation, I suggest EFI's if possible. Finding real, untainted gas is more and more hard taking a classic car on a long distance cruise.
It HAS NOT reached the point of absurdity yet, but its fast approaoching.
All the late model cars are engineered to run on the stuff, bikes also. The good filling stations you have the choice of real gas or the E85. BUT I've also made a discovery. Because they can charge MORE for the real stuff now, alot of folks only use it for the mowers and lawn equipment. I've got waterlogged fuel from the real stuff now, because they let it sit in the tanks sweating....sorry, didn't mean to hijack.
Anyway, yes, fuel has become a problem thats gonna get even worse for us hotrodders.
I like alcohol as a fuel. Blown alky motors in the altereds wwould last a whole season back in the old days. Gotta put more fuel in the motors though.... Alcohol motors run alot bigger jets
Just this past month I had to purchase a new string trimmer, and replace the motor on my lawnmower....I also toasted a outboard motor beacuse of the mess....