Wheel hop

[grumpymunchkin]

Hi guys,

Very new to this iste and to the t-bucket world. i have a 23 with just the leaf spring in the front end and around 45 mph i get wicked wheel hop. I really dont know muc about these cars, but i've wanted one my whole life. If there is anything that any of you could tell me or guide me in the right direction it would be a great help.
Please remember that i am a bucket virgin and all my lingo may not be correct, but any help would be awesome.


Thanks

Jeff

 

[Rick]

First welcome to the Forum:welcome:Now post a pic of your front end so we can see it.It sounds like you need shocks on the front but we need a pic to send you in the right direction.

 

[EX JUNK]

The first thing that I would check is tire balance and air pressure. If all is well there, I would look into the front shocks. I think that you may find the problem with balancing as that is the approximate speed that the problem manifests itself.

Jim

 

[blownt]

I'd say the main problem of hop/shake/bounce on a suicide type frontend is Toe-Out/In. It can be WICKED and SCARY depending on when it happens. Scared the crap out of me one time going around a sweeping bend on a freeway at 70 mph, and we are talking MAJOR shake and bounce. Got home and discovered somehow my toe-out was 3/4".

 

[Lee_in_KC]

Welcome to the group Jeff. Lots of helpful folks here.

I had pretty bad wheel hop when I first built my T. I had my front (and rear) wheels spin-balanced on the car and that pretty much cured it. I would still get a little hop if I hit a bump while in the 50-55 mph range. I installed hydraulic shocks last winter and now have no wheel hop issues at all. Wobble (shimmy), on the other hand, is another story, which I covered in depth here...

http://www.tbucketeers.com/forum/f7/dreaded-death-wobble-has-returned-aaarrrggghhh-4472/

 

[putz]

Welcome I agree with Lee KC on wheel hop if it is a wobble . Search with the word death wobble.

 

[Noob]

Welcome aboard Jeff. I myself am fighting the same thing with my 23T. I took my front rims to the motorcycle shop and tried to have them balanced, Turns out that the tires are cupped terribly, and ......out of round, and....wait for it....rims are bent. Previously I noticed that any tire pressure over 18 made the bounce worse. then when I took a spring out of the front it got even worse. So I have put another leaf back in and getting new tires. I'll let ya know tomorrow how that all worked out,

 

[rooster57]

SHOCKS will solve many problems.

 

[Telman2]

SHOCKS will solve many problems.

Leave it to Rooster to make a shocking statement.

 

[Noob]

I feel that shocks only help to cover uo the actual problems going on up there. Don't get me wrong, I would really like to add a set to the front of mine, but I think that if the geometry is all correct then the car will drive great without them. I finally got my tires mounted and balanced and back on the car. I then checked my alignment. way out. 1 inch toe in. the front end was all over the place. I got it back to 1/8 inch toe in and it drives straight and level right up to about 75mph and then my tie rod decided to bend up which threw me into situation somewhere between WTF and holy crap!!! I got it stopped and checked it out. I bent the tie rod, drag link, and the steering arm. So....back to the shop and time to fix and replace some parts. I think I'll make the drag link and tie rod out of Stainless round stock. I think I want the strenght of a solid rod instead of thinwall tubing.

 

[chop]

what material are you using for the tie rod and drag link. Why did it bend?

 

[Rick]

I feel that shocks only help to cover uo the actual problems going on up there. Don't get me wrong, I would really like to add a set to the front of mine, but I think that if the geometry is all correct then the car will drive great without them. I finally got my tires mounted and balanced and back on the car. I then checked my alignment. way out. 1 inch toe in. the front end was all over the place. I got it back to 1/8 inch toe in and it drives straight and level right up to about 75mph and then my tie rod decided to bend up which threw me into situation somewhere between WTF and holy crap!!! I got it stopped and checked it out. I bent the tie rod, drag link, and the steering arm. So....back to the shop and time to fix and replace some parts. I think I'll make the drag link and tie rod out of Stainless round stock. I think I want the strenght of a solid rod instead of thinwall tubing.

Do what you want my friend but you'll see for your self the front end needs a shock.I dont know whos been feeding you this crap but a tube is much stronger than a solid rod.But its your life do as you want.BUT!!!I would take into concideration the trials of some much more expeirienced hot rod builders and drivers.JUST MY OPINION.

 

[putz]

On the shock suject show me a car out of the factory without shocks and thousands of dollars in engineering so they must work.

 

[bobscogin]

Do what you want my friend but you'll see for your self the front end needs a shock.I dont know whos been feeding you this crap but a tube is much stronger than a solid rod

We agree on the need for shocks, but I sure would like to be able to understand how a tube is weaker than a solid bar? If the solid bar is weaker, throw a length of 1.5" solid bar in your tube bender, and it should bend easier than a 1.5" diameter tube. I don't think so. Understand that I'm not advocating using solid bar where a tube failed from some underlying cause, but it's quite a stretch to make the generalization that a tube is stronger than a solid bar of equal diameter.

Bob

 

[Noob]

I agree a shock will make the ride smoother, and I'm not saying a car shouldn't have them. What I am saying is that a front end perfectly set up will run straight and as smooth as the road surface it's running down. simply installing a shock and doing nothing else will not rectify a DW. You have to fix the underlying problem first and then enjoy the smooth ride that the shocks provide. As for what my tubes were made out of.. They are schedule 80 3/4" OD tubes. and I too would like to know the physics behind a tube being stronger than a solid rod. Why my tie rod bent..?? I can only guess, and I would hesitate to do so for fear of ridicule of my obviously infintismal knowledge base in the area of rod building. I'm just trying to figure it out, and maybe learn a thing or two. I am always grateful and receptive to other's input. Back to the drawing board here.

 

[blownt]

sch 80 is pipe not tubing

 

[bobscogin]

sch 80 is pipe not tubing

Correct, and there's no pipe with a 3/4" OD.That OD would fall somewhere between 3/8" pipe which has a .675" OD, and 1/2" pipe which has a .840" OD. Whether pipe or tube, a suspension or steering component with a 3/4" OD seems undersized.

Bob

 

[Noob]

That's what I'm learning, and very rapidly at that. I mic'ed the piece in question and the wall is around .83ish All the rods on this car are built out of the same thing. I think it's all undersized, looking at the available pieces now, it looks like 7/8 od is about the minimum with 1" seeming to be the preference. am I wrong? I think I should rebuild the drag link and tie rod out of something a bit more substantial than 3/4 od, and yes it is 3/4 od I am pretty adept at reading a tape. What size tubing should I be looking at and should stainless steel be part of my equation?

 

[Ted Brown]

3/4 inch OD is what we tried many years ago, and it proved out to be too small of an OD. and wall thickness as well. Now days, 7/8"OD X .188 wall DOM is as small as I would ever use on the front..(larger on the rear) the reason that a tube is stronger than a solid, is that there is another wall to break, square is stronger yet, but most will not build cars suspensions with square tubing, sept Me.. hehe If the front got the DW, that can tweak all the front tubing in a real big hurry, lots of strange forces going on then... Very dangerous when that happens, usually too much tow in... Ride safe

 

[bobscogin]

the reason that a tube is stronger than a solid, is that there is another wall to break,

Ted, could you elaborate on that? It's commonly accepted that for a given tube diameter, as wall thickness increases, strength increases. Would you agree? If so, then think of a bar as a tube with a wall thickness equal to half it's diameter. How could that be weaker than a tube with less wall thickness if it can be presumed that increased wall thickness increases strength?

Bob