1938 Ford front suspension worth using?

[trogdor]

Hi all. I'm just starting my t-bucket build. I have access to a 1938 Ford front suspension basically for free, and I'm wondering about its suitability for a t-bucket. It has the spring in front of the axle, which seems different from most t-buckets I've seen. The radius rods are also connected, so I assume those would need to be split as well. I'm ok doing some sandblasting and tinkering to make it work, but is this a route others have taken? I'm trying to minimize costs, but I can get a new setup from Speedway for around $1200 ready to be bolted on, brakes and all. Would using the old one be cost effective it even if it was initially free? Would it be safe?

 

[Spanky]

First, Welcome!

Those are some good questions you are asking, and if you keep that up during your build, you'll be successful. I think you have hit the nail on the head regarding the "free" front end assembly vs one already engineered. With these little cars, there are lots of ways to build them, but some tried-n-true ways have become pretty standard because they work in the real world. The 'spring-behind-the-axle' front end is popular because it works. In the early days rodders wanted to stretch their wheelbase a bit by using this method of mounting the axle to improve the ride, and companies like Speedway (or our own sponsors, RPM - Ron Pope Motorsports - and California Custom Roadsters) have engineered setups that will work and are safe if used properly. And cost-wise, by the time you re-engineer that '38 Ford unit to work right, you'll probably spend about the same as you would for one of the available front ends. It's your choice, but you can tell which way I'm leaning.

Tell us more about the rest of your plans for the bucket. Engine choice, body style, etc.

 

[trogdor]

Thanks for your thoughtful response. That was sort of my thought as well. As for my plans, I'm just getting started. I happened onto someone else's started but never finished project. So far I have a pre-fab frame, fiberglass body with door, and coil-over rear suspension kit, all from Speedway. The previous owners got as far as buying those parts and putting them in the garage... I'm determined to get a little farther at least! I have a 305 sbc that I'm rebuilding that will go into it, which I'm keeping basically stock. Based on information I've read here, I currently looking for a TH350 transmission and a 2wd S10 rear end.

Although it is exciting to think of ultimately driving the car, it is more about the process and build for me. For example, I've had a ton of fun rebuilding the engine and I've learned so much. I'm excited to learn about painting, wiring, all of it. I sort of enjoy looking for old/used parts. It is fun to find a deal plus I've met some very interesting people and everybody always wants to chat for awhile! Which is cool. So I'd like to fabricate or reuse old parts as much as possible, for budget reasons plus it is what I enjoy. But I think there is a certain amount of wisdom I don't have yet in this area -- mainly, when to know I'm about to get in over my head -- so that is why I asked. Maybe steering/stopping are not the best areas for me to learn by making mistakes.

 

[Indycars]

Welcome to the forum from Oklahoma!

 

[409T]

Spring in front of the axle or on top?

 

[trogdor]

Spring in front of the axle or on top?

The spring is currently in front, and is connected to the front of the radius rods. I can't post a link yet, but it is essentially what was in a Speedway Toolbox article called "Modifying Axles to Lower a Hot Rod".

 

[Spanky]

Modifying Axles to Lower a Hot Rod (speedwaymotors.com)

 

[fletcherson]

It’s your project, but I would buy the unit that the frame, etc was designed to use. You will have lots of other stuff to figure out. I bought a older one and am redoing it, there is more to these little cars than one initially thinks. I chose to change the controls... steering, brakes, shifter, clutch/brake pedals, linkage, etc., if there would have been pre engineered stuff designed to fit, my life would have been soooo much simpler! It depends on your taste, skills, equipment availability, budget, and what you enjoy. Just my opinion.

 

[trogdor]

Thanks all! I believe you all have convinced me I'll take a look at the RPM stuff. Do any t-bucket front ends ever come up on the used market? Like someone upgrades to chrome for example, or just abandons a project (like how I got my body/frame)? I've looked a bit and haven't seen much.

 

[Spanky]

We'll keep our eyes out. Just remember, the components in whatever front end you acquire need to be solid and not worn out. Kingpins and spring bushings wear, and they can give you fits when on the road if not repaired or replaced.

 

[Indycars]

If drum brakes are OK, I have the spindles/brakes, kingpins/bearings/shims and the 26.25" leaf spring/shackles. You would need everything else such as axle, radius rods, brake lines, etc.

I would like to get $100 and you pay the shipping costs.

First I want to get this up front for your consideration. The steering arm was welded in which removed 2 of the 4 bolts that hold the backing plate to the spindle. One more hole was drilled and a bolt added. There is a total of 3 bolts holding the backing plate on. It's been this way since roughly 1979 when the car was originally finished. Below are photos showing the changes. If you are still interested, then I can post all the photos you want to see of all the parts. I just wanted to get past this hiccup before spending lots of time on the project.




Near as I can tell the spindle and brakes fit a 1962 Ford Econoline. I have the seal, brake spring, wheel cylinder and dust cover part numbers. Dimensions below should help with determining what axle you would need. Someone on here should be able to identify your needs.

King Pin Length: 6.17"
King Pin OD: 0.74"
Axle Boss Length: 2.26"
.

 

[trogdor]

That looks really interesting! Thanks for posting. I took at look at the RPM site and they have 4-inch drop axles that would fit "'37-'48 Ford Spindles". I'm looking to see if these would be compatible. I have a little reading to do to understand how these all fit together

 

[Indycars]

Take your time and let me know if you need a different dimension.

 

[PotvinGuy]

Hi Trogdor. It's hard to give advice not knowing what skills and tools you have. Unless you can machine and weld I'd stick with new parts from Speedway and RPM and CCR. Is this your first build? Are you prone to depression, anxiety and thoughts of suicide? On any psychotropic drugs? I'm kidding..or am I? A bad build can test your mettle. But you have all of us here to help you.
Oh, I like 4-wheel disc brakes. Not a place to skimp.

 

[Indycars]

PotvinGuy does give some sound advice!!! But he is like my Wife she also gives sound advice ..... 99% sound and 1% advice! LOL!!! Seriously, he doe speak the truth.

I completely forgot about an axle I've had in the attic for 40 years, it was the original axle to the car. Now the brackets will have to be cut off and new one welded on in the right position. Or a different spring will have to be purchased. The axle and spring in the photo will NOT work together.

Price to include the axle will be $175, that's for everything and you pay the shipping.



.

 

[trogdor]

Hi Trogdor. It's hard to give advice not knowing what skills and tools you have. Unless you can machine and weld I'd stick with new parts from Speedway and RPM and CCR. Is this your first build? Are you prone to depression, anxiety and thoughts of suicide? On any psychotropic drugs? I'm kidding..or am I? A bad build can test your mettle. But you have all of us here to help you.
Oh, I like 4-wheel disc brakes. Not a place to skimp.

I can weld and have a stick welder available. I don't have a cutting torch, and I don't have much for machine tools beyond a hand drill and other basic tools. Yes, it is my first build. I'm fairly mechanically inclined but most of this is very new to me -- there is a lot of background knowledge that I don't have yet. I'm a tinkerer at heart so I'm up for a challenge, but if I ever want to finish this and keep sane I know I probably have to pick my battles.

 

[Indycars]

@PotvinGuy
What are trying to do to me, I was going to retire on that $175 !!! Hehehehe !!!

 

[409T]

Thanks all! I believe you all have convinced me I'll take a look at the RPM stuff. Do any t-bucket front ends ever come up on the used market? Like someone upgrades to chrome for example, or just abandons a project (like how I got my body/frame)? I've looked a bit and haven't seen much.

For Sale - T-Bucket Parts I have to add my shameless plug. However I just saw your post in the intro forum and now know that you already have most of this stuff.

 

[fletcherson]

That looks really interesting! Thanks for posting. I took at look at the RPM site and they have 4-inch drop axles that would fit "'37-'48 Ford Spindles". I'm looking to see if these would be compatible. I have a little reading to do to understand how these all fit together

Ron Pope, (RPM) will build whatever you need if he doesn’t offer a compatible off shelf unit.

 

[Buffman]

Thanks for your thoughtful response. That was sort of my thought as well. As for my plans, I'm just getting started. I happened onto someone else's started but never finished project. So far I have a pre-fab frame, fiberglass body with door, and coil-over rear suspension kit, all from Speedway. The previous owners got as far as buying those parts and putting them in the garage... I'm determined to get a little farther at least! I have a 305 sbc that I'm rebuilding that will go into it, which I'm keeping basically stock. Based on information I've read here, I currently looking for a TH350 transmission and a 2wd S10 rear end.

Although it is exciting to think of ultimately driving the car, it is more about the process and build for me. For example, I've had a ton of fun rebuilding the engine and I've learned so much. I'm excited to learn about painting, wiring, all of it. I sort of enjoy looking for old/used parts. It is fun to find a deal plus I've met some very interesting people and everybody always wants to chat for awhile! Which is cool. So I'd like to fabricate or reuse old parts as much as possible, for budget reasons plus it is what I enjoy. But I think there is a certain amount of wisdom I don't have yet in this area -- mainly, when to know I'm about to get in over my head -- so that is why I asked. Maybe steering/stopping are not the best areas for me to learn by making mistakes.

If you are using a GM 305 be aware that they have a reputation for camshaft problems. The lobes flatten easily and even on break-in.
Any good aftermarket cam and lifter setup will be worth the time and $$