454 puking oil

[PotvinGuy]

The things one doesn't know. I found this on Team Camaro site re SBC filters:

"You do not have a problem. Several filter companies (AC included) have downsized the SBC filter yet the parts catalogs still specify one filter for all years. I have personally opened two SAME BRAND filter boxes of slightly different size with the same part number and the filters inside each had different diameter seal area. I found this after pumping a half quart of oil past the oil filterseal and onto my garage floor while using a drill and priming tool on my engine that had sat for seven years.
The Purolator L20049 (and some other brands) is still the correct size. Here is a picture of the Purolator L20049 and an AC DelcoPF1218specified for a '65-'92 small block sitting seal to seal. You can probably compare a couple different brands in your local store and find the same thing".


"The AC 454 filter is 3 5/8 " in diameter & the rubber seal is 3 5/16" in diameter.
The Purolator L20049 filter is 3 3/4" in diameter and the rubber seal 3 1/2" in diameter".

Apparently some filters were downsized and won't seal! Check the diameter of your filters and let us know what you find.

 

[swatman260]

Wow, Potvin, if that's the solution, I'll buy you a beer. Lol. I'll head to the parts store tomorrow and see if I can find one of the larger sized filters!

 

[RPM]

Ron, at the risk of embarassing myself even further here, what plug are you talking about? The filter adaptor has a small screen with a spring seal in it, but that is the only bypass valve I'm aware of. Is there another I should be looking at?

And as to the seal, I believe it is blowing it out completely. It's hard to see whats happening because of the flange around the filter area, but upon removing two of the four filters, the o ring was completely separated from the canister.

And separate from all that, Ron, are you coming to Moultrie next weekend?

In race engines and some Hi performance street engings. The little by pass valve and spring are taken out and a pipe plug installed. This forces all of the oil to go through the filter.

 

[swatman260]

And Dave, no hurt feelings here. I'm feeling pretty dumb with this issue...but yes, I'm oiling the o ring and tightening the filters properly

 

[swatman260]

Ah, gotcha Ron. No plug in mine. Just a stock valve.

 

[2old2fast]

Just to make sure , take the adaptor off , put some nuts on the mounting bolts so they're in mounted position & screw the adaptor into the filter ,just to be sure it's not preventing the filter from sealing/seating...... if that's good , there has to be a problem w/the block
dave

 

[swatman260]

Ok, not sure if that photo will show up or not, but I've pretty much ruled out the o ring not contacting the block. I put a very light layer of paint onto the top of the o ring and then screwed the filter on until it just made contact, a division then removed it. There is a ring of paint completely around the flange, just as there should be. However, there is about a 1/4" gap between the o ring contact patch and the outer flange wall. I'm not sure if that's normal or not, but I'm gonna find that larger Purolator filter today, and hope it solves the problem.

 

[swatman260]

OK, still no luck, even with the larger filter. I found the Purolator filter recommended by PotvinGuy and gave it a shot. Within 3-4 seconds, oil was flooding out around the seal, just like with the others.

So what I know so far is that the seal is making good contact with the block all the way around and is installed to proper tightness and the o ring is still being blown out. There is definitely only one o ring, and no other gasket, in use. I feel as if there must be some obstruction in the oil passage way upstream from the filter that is preventing the flow, but I don't even know where to start looking. Any recommendations on what to do from here? My car is completely done and awaiting final inspection, and now I'm stuck with a motor I cant run.

 

[2old2fast]

I've never encountered this problem in 50 + years of wrenching on chevies so I'm at a loss to tell you what it could be .... on sbc there's a plug underneath the rear main cap that will cause oiling problems , I honestly don't know if BB are the same... the engine runs , right ?? are you getting oil to the top end ? I remember reading somewhere a guy put an engine together using axle grease as assembly lube ...plugged up everything.. keep talking to us , we'll try to help ...
dave

 

[swatman260]

Dave, I really appreciate you guys trying to help me out with this. It's one of the things I love about this site. This is so frustrating because no one seems to have ever encountered it. Oil was getting to the top end when I primed it. I haven't pulled the covers back off to verify that it still is, but I will do that and start it up again just to verify. Whats a little more oil on the ground at this point. lol.
Unfortunately, I bought this engine already built, so I can't really attest to how well things were done.

 

[2old2fast]

As w/all internet research , the "details" are a bit sketchy , but here's something ..on bbc equipped w/an external oil cooler there is allegedly a by-pass valve in the block ...it appears to be located behind a pipe plug above the oil filter and is in addition to the oil filter bypass that's in the filter adaptor .. anyway , it's worth a look...
dave

 

[swatman260]

Well, I do know that this BBC is out of an RV, and was originally equipped with at least a remote filter. I don't know if it had an oil cooler or not. I also wouldn't have a clue as to what to do with said by-pass valve, if I'm able to find it. lol. I'll start googling that issue though and keep trying. Thank you again.

 

[PotvinGuy]

Lets see...I think the oil pressure gauge port is upstream of the filter...anyone know for sure? If so and you're reading 60#, there can't be an obstruction downstream of the filter. Which makes me crazy! Assuming there is no mechanical mismatch at the adapter/filter, it sounds like extremely high oil pressure is blowing out the O-ring. But where could that come from? Must be an obstruction somewhere. We need a diagram of the BBC oiling system.

 

[2old2fast]

Random thoughts ...the canister on an oil fiter [most] is rated a 250 p.s.i. burst pressure , I would assume the seal to be 150 +... if the pump relief pistonis stuck in the oil pump , you could be exceeding that pressure [but I doubt it]
dave

 

[2old2fast]

There's a bunch on the net , I'm to computer stupid to copy BTW you have to blow most of them up 200% to see 'em LOL
dave

 

[swatman260]

Thats one of the things that's so odd to me..my oil pressure fitting is in one of the plugs imediately above the filter housing, and its only reading about 60 psi. (and it doesnt spike up prior to the oil flooding out of the filter). How can I be exceeding the burst rating for the O ring, but still only be generating 60 PSI, 2 inches upstream? It makes no sense to me at all.

 

[PotvinGuy]

Here's some info copied off the web:

The oil filter adapter bolts to Mark IV blocks with two 5/16-18 bolts. Stock bolts are 13⁄8 inches long, but most aftermarket blocks require shorter 1¼-inch-long bolts. OEM bolts have very short hex heads to clear the oil filter, so if you are using replacement bolts it is usually necessary to shorten the bolt heads for clearance. You can use a bench grinder, belt sander, or even a file—just make sure the bolt heads do not protrude higher than the gasket surface of the block.


The routing is this, according to my "How To Hotrod Big Block Chevy's book, pages 111-124. "Priority Mains" oiling.

Oil pump to oil filter.

Out of the filter fwd down the left side of the engine just above the pan rail (there is a whole line of small plugs here on the block) This is the main bearing gallery, 9/16" dia.

The passages from the main gallery to the mains themselves are 5/16" and are just above the top of each bearing, straight in from the sides.

The camshaft bearings are fed from the same main passage, at the top of each of the main bearings.

The lifter gallery is fed thru a passage just behind the #5 cam bearing. This feeds the lifter bores.
This was changed from the 1965/66 blocks which actually used the rear cam bearing as the passage, requiring a grooved journal AND bearing.

Lifter oil goes thru the follow lifter up the hollow pushrod, to the rocker.
For stock ball-type rockers, the drippers in the rocker cover ARE A MUST.

To answer your question about where the oil pressure gauge is connected, it is a 1/4" pipe thread hole on the driver's side in the front near the damper.

Now as I understand it (I'm a SBC guy, outa my comfort zone here), you can use a different kind of filter that doesn't need an adapter. Anyone know what I'm describing? Is that an option we should consider?

 

[swatman260]

Quick question for one of you guys who know this better than me...Does it matter which direction the bypass valve on the filter adaptor orients? In other words, there are two bolts, centered on the adaptor, so it could be installed with the bypass valve closest to the block, or farther away from the block. Would that orientation make any difference? I was able to get in touch with the guy I bought it from, and he swears it was running just fine and not leaking when he pulled it from the RV, and that the only mod he made to the oiling system was to change the remote filter out with the adaptor.

 

[2old2fast]

I don't believe it makes any difference...I'd want to see that adapter that came off the engine ..
dave

 

[swatman260]

Yeah, I asked about the old adaptor, and its long gone unfortunately.

I'm off work tomorrow, so hopefully I can spend a little time underneath this thing and try to get a better handle on whats going on. The leak is absolutely coming from around the filter, so it just leads me to believe that I must have a blockage somewhere in the oil passages. I'm going to pull the distributor again and try using the priming tool to verify that oil is still moving as it should with it. I fear if I can't figure something out soon, I'm gonna have to pull the engine back out of the car and start opening it up, and I'd really like to avoid that.