heim ends versus bushed ends

[smokeyco75]

I was just reading another thread here about heim joints and I am trying to figure out why more people don't opt for the bushed ends like they use on most four bar setups? I plan on using them at the frame attachment points on my radius rods in the front and also on my custum rear design. The reason for doing this is an attempt to improve ride quality. Meangreen used heater hose for bushings at the batwings on his track T and after driving it I was impressed with the ride quality. There was nott much road vibration felt in the steering wheel or in the backside coming from the chassis. I will be doing this for the rear axle attachment point as well on my bucket. Factory cars use bushings everywhere for a good reason. If I am off base folks please enlighten me. A lot of people here have already been very helpful and I thank you all for your input.

 

[benT]

The hairpins on the front of my '27 are bushed ends. We are using bushed ends on the front and back radius rods on the '23 we are building now. I certainly prefer them over heims for that application.

 

[Zandoz]

I've been wondering what folks thought of this kind of rod end To try to hit a balance between vibration and binding, I've been considering them for one end of my planned triangulated 4 link rear set up....with heims on the opposite ends

 

[ellis8500]

Where did you get those? In all the searches I have done on Rod Ends I have never seen any like it. As for the fixed, bushed ends......the total suspension geometry has to be designed for them since they are not self-aligning.

 

[2old2fast]

Right - click on the picture , then search google image ..... they're on e-pay from a "rod shop" in Iowa , no mention of whether they're cast or forged ??? I'd want more info before using them .
dave

 

[railroad]

Off subject a little, but that bolt, nut combination needs a minimum of 2 threads showing through the nut.

 

[Zandoz]

Where did you get those? In all the searches I have done on Rod Ends I have never seen any like it. As for the fixed, bushed ends......the total suspension geometry has to be designed for them since they are not self-aligning.

The specific one in the pic is from a seller on ebay...they are available in 5/8 or 3/4 and are stainless steel. I don't know the legality of posting ebay links here. I know Lucky7 was selling the same general design, but they were very pricey last I saw them. I do not know if they are forged or cast. My concern is how well the pivot bolt would hold up.

 

[ellis8500]

With lock nuts it is OK to have bolt end flush with nut since more than two threads are actually past the nut threads.

 

[railroad]

That looks like a fiber lock nut. The locking action is a function of the threads engaging the fiber/nylon, etc. If the threads do not exit the material where the bolt thread is at max diameter it will not hold. It is the same on steel lock nuts that use the outer edge to hold onto the threads.
You are allowed to use any method or length you like, but it will not pass aircraft inspections. I think steel lock nuts are acceptable with 1 and a half threads showing. It has been a long time.

 

[ellis8500]

Looks like we can take our pick on this one. I doubt that anyone here has seen a joint fail; i.e., bolt pull out of a nut, when bolt/nut was in a flush condition. For the suspension bolts, 1/2 and 5/8 I use blue locktite with the nylock nuts. Keep in mind that we are not building airplanes. Even with airplanes, military and commercial have different standards for fasteners. The jets we ride to Daytona are not built to the same specs as an F15. If one wants to apply strict standards to their build, that's fine. However, it is not necessary for all to do as long as we all build structurally safe cars.

Grade 5 = A325 and Grade 8 = A490 for strength specs.

• Industrial Fasteners Institute, Joe Greenslade, Director of Engineering Technology.
  • “How Many Threads Should Be Beyond The Nut?. The answer is: A minimum of two thread pitches should extend beyond the top surface of the nut.”

• RCSC (Research Council for Structural Connections) Specification for Structural Joints Using ASTM A325 or A490 Bolts 2.3.2. Geometry
  • “Bolt dimensions shall meet the requirements of ANSI/ASME B18.2.6. The bolt length used shall be such that the end of the bolt extends beyond or is at least flush with the outer face of the nut when properly installed.”
  AISC Steel Construction Manual, 13th Edition, Section 14-10
  • “Adequate thread engagement is identical to the condition described in the RCSC Specification as adequate for steel to steel structural joints using high strength bolts: having the end of the bolt flush with or outside the face of the nut”

 

[GT63]

Kugel Components http://www.kugelkomponents.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=50

 

[TriodeLuvr]

I could be wrong, but this doesn't look like a suitable replacement for a nylon or teflon lined heim...

Jack