Is their any options other than using clevises

[EX JUNK]

Thanks Jim. Coming from you carries a lot of weight at my house. If I'm not mistaken I was thinking you might have single shear brackets on the rear chassis brackets. If so. I didn't mean to upset anyone's design cart. Big enough bolts can and do overcome bending forces. It's those big torque numbers and sticky tires that bend things. In the front end I feel these bending issues are more of a problem due to several things. Usually the bolt diameters are much smaller. The single batwing bracket is usually 3/8" thick allowing very little bearing load surface. Hole sizes are either laser/waterjet cut and sometimes are slightly over sized to the bolt OD. That allows the bolt to twist in the batwing which can egg shape that hole. I have always drilled holes just undersized then reamed to fit. Hairpin units are flexible by design and in my opinion should not be used to attach shocks to. I realize this might be over thinking or even anal thinking but I have been called and accused much worse. Just the industries I have hung out in over the last 50 years have inbred me into that world. And it really takes no more time to apply those standard to these cars then doing it quick and dirty. Looking at your car and your son's should be a must do by anyone starting out on their first build. Another one to study is Hotrod 46 and his roadster. I had a chance to really look it over at Spirit's Bucket Bash some years ago and it is well thought out and executed like yours. Hope this clears any mud in the water. Take care!

George

George, here are a couple of shots showing the brackets on my car. I use rod ends mounted with double shear brackets. The front is a four bar setup and the rear is an adjustable four link setup with a wishbone locator and all bolts are 1/2".

Jim

 

[Screaming Metal]

Are their any viable options for attaching radius rods to front bat wings other than using clevises? I know a lot of builders have no issues with using them but they scare me! I have considered using four bar ends or rod ends sandwiched between two bat wings.It seems to me that rod ends will give you more range of motion. Not to sure if you realy want that? Using the rod ends would no doubt require the use of a panhard bar.

Well, you have clevises, a lot of the old uns ran rod ends, you can use heim joints. But, heims don't take side thrust very well. You can use a combination. Or Use Bushed ends....not as hi tech....but these bushed ends have been holding the front and rears in cars for over 100 years. Just match the rating for the stress of the job to be done, and match the chosen end to the job....and all will be right in your world.
When you can, always run a double shear configuration....single shear you taking away 1/2 of that bolts holding power....

 

[ram rod2]

Well, you have clevises, a lot of the old uns ran rod ends, you can use heim joints. But, heims don't take side thrust very well. You can use a combination. Or Use Bushed ends....not as hi tech....but these bushed ends have been holding the front and rears in cars for over 100 years. Just match the rating for the stress of the job to be done, and match the chosen end to the job....and all will be right in your world.
When you can, always run a double shear configuration....single shear you taking away 1/2 of that bolts holding power..

Thanx Screaming Metal
Iam leaning toward bushed ends!
At the risk of sounding like a total morron. What is the difference between a rod end and a heim?They look like they function much the same way. Judging by a picture I dont see much difference. Only thing I see is the heim seems to have a shoulder on the ball center section where a rod end does not???? please educate me.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Thanx Screaming Metal
Iam leaning toward bushed ends!
At the risk of sounding like a total morron. What is the difference between a rod end and a heim?They look like they function much the same way. Judging by a picture I dont see much difference. Only thing I see is the heim seems to have a shoulder on the ball center section where a rod end does not???? please educate me.

Think of a rod end, like the rod end on one of your steering rods on the 50's/60's/70 cars....they are pretty damn tough, because they take some severe hits from the roads and survive.
Heim joint is a spherical hardened ball with a hole in it, captured by a thin spherical cage or housing....
Do a search....you'll see the difference quickly....

 

[Screaming Metal]

Thanx Screaming Metal
Iam leaning toward bushed ends!
At the risk of sounding like a total morron. What is the difference between a rod end and a heim?They look like they function much the same way. Judging by a picture I dont see much difference. Only thing I see is the heim seems to have a shoulder on the ball center section where a rod end does not???? please educate me.

I hate it when a answer just disappears....
Anyway, think of a rod end of the front steering components of a 50's/60's/70's car....they are tough and take quite a beating on the roads.
A Heim joint is just a spherical ball with a hole thru it in a trapped spherical housing. Each has it advantages and disadvantages, strength and weaknesses.....

 

[one finger john]

No knock on Jim's rear suspension design, but why are the front bushings in a single shear set up ?

John

 

[2old2fast]

Rod end is a generic term & can refer to a TIE rod end [as seen on most oem steering linkage] Heim refers to a spheical rod end as used in the aircraft industry as well as industrial apps. , Bushed rod ends refers to units that have a rubber/plastic compliant media that acts as a shock absorbinr/vibration deadening media in them , gets a bit confusing w/out some research... that's about as well as I can desribe them...
dave

 

[one finger john]

A picture is worth a thousand explanations.

 

[2old2fast]

So post some !!
dave

 

[one finger john]

I merely suggest. I have no interest in the photo sites, stock piling photos, etc.
I am an idea man. I have ideas, concepts that might prove useful here.
Some ideas may be right or feasible. Others are in the realm of "i don't know, it might work". Or not work at all.
My living situation is surprisingly close to Mike The Scot both in size and monetary income.
Would like to build a bucket but no garage and no discretionary funds.
I have a good eye for chassis design, a good sense of proportion, and a feel for body lines and "flow".
In my small group of friends my engines, that I built, were solid, well tuned and dependable.
I still have thirty-five year old Snap-on torque wrenches nestled in their carrying cases, calibrated to a lb., ready to be used.

When I make suggestions, I make them from MY point of view, My experience. And I am always open to new points of view and ideas.

John

 

[2old2fast]

In other words you're like me , don't know how to post imported images ??
dave

And you still 139 posts behind me

 

[one finger john]

That too. Don't have a vast "example" pile of photos to illistrate what I am saying. Don't want said pile and headache. I know the difference between joints and ends. That's all that matters to me. If a newby gets too needy and can't do a little research, then we fall into the 2 page question and answer trap with Mike pissed and alienating all the innocent lambs.

Google knows all. Use it.

As far as the posts, watch your back. Fast approaching.

John

P.S. Let's bring back a favorite tunnel ram thread. Or even better a cross ram thread. Just for fun.

 

[2old2fast]

Problem w/using google is knowing the right "key words" .. Those who are not knowledgable in automotive "enhancement" don't know the venachular [there's my big word of the month] so don't know what to look for..I'm w/you , a pic is easier , but I simply don't know how !! Give me a wrench , that I know what to do with..
dave

 

[2old2fast]

I murdered my big word ...it's vernacular , sorry 'bout that
dave

 

[ram rod2]

A picture is worth a thousand explanations.

Googl is great!!
sorry I asked a question before I had time to research it!!
Iam quilty!!

 

[one finger john]

A lot of people don't want to wade thru countless pages to get the jist of the question being asked.
For example - go to da Google and type in "heim joint". Go to the first none yellow (ad) highlighted entry and click on it. A little reading (and a couple of pictures) and there you have it. Type in "heim joint manufacturer". More info.
Type in your full name and see if you are in there.
Don't apologize for ignorance, just don't make it a habit.

John

 

[fluidfloyd]

EX Junk...

Jim, Thanks for re posting your suspension pictures as this is a very good example of how to do it right. The workmanship is top notch. The rear end is fully articulating with no suspension bind. The centering devise works out great. That's about as good as it gets. As questioned by One Fingered John about the single shear front mounts... well I to question that but as I earlier stated, size matters. A quick calculation will tell the tell that you probably have an excess of bolt diameter to do the job. Double versus single shear can be argued till the end of time with no one winning. Just a personal preference. I prefer double tabs but you drive your car many miles so continue on Sir. You do set the pace here in that regard.

George

 

[fluidfloyd]

Rod end is a generic term & can refer to a TIE rod end [as seen on most oem steering linkage] Heim refers to a spheical rod end as used in the aircraft industry as well as industrial apps. , Bushed rod ends refers to units that have a rubber/plastic compliant media that acts as a shock absorbinr/vibration deadening media in them , gets a bit confusing w/out some research... that's about as well as I can desribe them...
dave

Dave...Actually the term Heim Rodend is in reference to the inventor of the spherical rod end bearing Lewis Heim. As you stated Heim has become a generic name for all Spherical type rodends. I to am guilty of calling them Heims but I have never actually ordered one in over 40 years of messing with this stuff. Lot's of different manufactures and styles available. Very easy to source out their catalogs with all technical drawings and strength loads. We use a lot of Rod End Supply located down the road in Olathe, KS and they work well. Take care.

George

 

[Screaming Metal]

George, here are a couple of shots showing the brackets on my car. I use rod ends mounted with double shear brackets. The front is a four bar setup and the rear is an adjustable four link setup with a wishbone locator and all bolts are 1/2".

Jim

As usual, we see a great piece of ART in ExJunk's T! Now THAT is a work or ART! I never tire looking at it....

 

[Screaming Metal]

Thanx Screaming Metal
Iam leaning toward bushed ends!
At the risk of sounding like a total morron. What is the difference between a rod end and a heim?They look like they function much the same way. Judging by a picture I dont see much difference. Only thing I see is the heim seems to have a shoulder on the ball center section where a rod end does not???? please educate me.

Also, the Bushed rod ends will ride different, depending on the bushing material. The soft rubber bushing will allow of more movement and more floating, where as the Poly bushings, are more rigid and less forgiving of misalignment and binding....
Choose your rod ends accordingly..... In other words, rubber rides softer, hard bushings ride rougher....