Lowrollerchevy
Member
hopefully they work out for you guys
enjoy :welcome:
enjoy :welcome:
Patterns - Front spring perches for 2.5" crossmember
- Thread starter Lowrollerchevy
- Start date
Lowrollerchevy
Member
files 6 - 10
Lowrollerchevy
Member
and files 11-13 :welcome:
Lowrollerchevy
Member
revised page #5, nothing critical but the gusset size was wrong
GAB
Member
Here is an idea for a front spring perch that I have thought about doing for quite a few years. The cover being welded to the side plates isn't anything new, they have done that for a long time. The difference is that the bolts are removeable but are not screwed into the perch but rather they are captive and replaceable. Just a little something to make your buddy scratch his head and wonder how you did that. Way over the top of practical... but then isn't that what this thing is all about?
Here is whats inside.
Here is whats inside.
Lowrollerchevy
Member
now thats what i consider a great first post 
why didnt i think of that ... lol
why didnt i think of that ... lol
GAB
Member
If you liked that rendition of a front spring perch, you'll love this one...maybe . How you position the mounting surface that the spring rides on in relation to the frame has been asked on various forums for a long time. To me, the ideal would be to make the surface adaptable to what the spring dictates as the front end moves through its travel. Thus a knuckle setup that allows that action. You have a swivel on the spring hangers that allows rotation...or at least it should...and by allowing rotation in the center, you will free up the spring to stay in the flat plane that takes any binding out of it. Free suspension is working suspension.
This also frees up the spring across the chassis. You are applying the weight to the whole spring. With the center mounted spring, it's like having two quarter elliptical springs that have a common mounting point. I'm not sure of all of the ramifications of that, but it would seem to me that the spring would be a little more sensitive to the control of the suspension. Just some more daydreaming and doodling.
. How you position the mounting surface that the spring rides on in relation to the frame has been asked on various forums for a long time. To me, the ideal would be to make the surface adaptable to what the spring dictates as the front end moves through its travel. Thus a knuckle setup that allows that action. You have a swivel on the spring hangers that allows rotation...or at least it should...and by allowing rotation in the center, you will free up the spring to stay in the flat plane that takes any binding out of it. Free suspension is working suspension.
This also frees up the spring across the chassis. You are applying the weight to the whole spring. With the center mounted spring, it's like having two quarter elliptical springs that have a common mounting point. I'm not sure of all of the ramifications of that, but it would seem to me that the spring would be a little more sensitive to the control of the suspension. Just some more daydreaming and doodling.
tfeverfred
Well-Known Member
Who is this secret fabricator!? Nice work and drawings too.
Nice work and drawings too.
LumenAl
Member
Only guy I've seen this creative and talented is Mr. George A. Barns from KC... the mother-ship of innovation! This mans contributions to this board can be incredible... Good to see you here GAB and sharing your thoughts and ideas with everyone... what ever you do... never stop doodling!
First of all..a big welcome to the site! I'm sorry to say, I haven't seen yor work before. From what I've seen, I'll be watching for your next post!!
The pivoting spring perch reminds me of one I saw on an old dirt racer 30 some years ago. This car was built in the late '20's or early '30's. I was told it was called a "Bulldog perch". I'll try to discribe it as I remember it. It was really crude but my old friend said it worked very well.
The front crossmember was two pieces of 2X2 angle iron welded together to form a square tube. To this they added a 3" stub of C-channel with the open end to the front. This was in turn capped with another piece of C-channel with the open ends to the sides. A block of steel was fitted insde this second piece of channel with a bolt used as a pivot. The spring was held to the block with two U-bolts. You have gone one step further and added a second pivot bolt to eliminate spring binding. Outstanding!!
This is so awesome. Don't be suprised if you see this show up on a car in the near future.
Ron
The pivoting spring perch reminds me of one I saw on an old dirt racer 30 some years ago. This car was built in the late '20's or early '30's. I was told it was called a "Bulldog perch". I'll try to discribe it as I remember it. It was really crude but my old friend said it worked very well.
The front crossmember was two pieces of 2X2 angle iron welded together to form a square tube. To this they added a 3" stub of C-channel with the open end to the front. This was in turn capped with another piece of C-channel with the open ends to the sides. A block of steel was fitted insde this second piece of channel with a bolt used as a pivot. The spring was held to the block with two U-bolts. You have gone one step further and added a second pivot bolt to eliminate spring binding. Outstanding!!
This is so awesome. Don't be suprised if you see this show up on a car in the near future.
Ron
GAB
Member
Easy guys! I'm just an old guy who has been around this stuff for the last 50 years. Most of this stuff is things that I have seen in the magazines in those years and certainly not of my invention. I'd give credit for the original ideas ...if I could remember whose they were! CRS, you know:sad:. The only thing that I can take credit for is the drawings.
I've always liked to draw and make things and these 3D solid modeling programs really do a great job of combining those activities. Just draw all of the parts as though you were making them in real life and combine them into assemblies and see what the whole shebang looks like. You can revolve stuff any way that you want it, turn off the visibility of parts (thats what I did with the cover on the second pic) and change from orthographic to perspective with one button click. I use Inventor 8 which is getting pretty ancient now...but will do anything that I want or need. I can't even begin to imagine what is going on in the background in these programs as they are all mathematics based.
As far as why I am hanging around Bucket sites, that is what I cut my hot rod teeth on. A friend and I built one back in 1959-61. Here is part of a page from Rod & Custom from back then about that car.
Currently, I have a collection of stuff over here in the corner that if you close your eyes real tight and turn your imagination up full blast, you can almost see what might turn into a track roadster. It's been that way for about 12 years now! It's kind of hard getting enthused about working nights and weekends on your own stuff after you spend 6 days a week working on other peoples stuff. Oh well, maybe someday. Guess that I'm just a Buckethead without the Bucket.
I probably shouldn't have gotten into this on this thread, don't mean to hijack it, just trying to answer the questions.
George Barnes
I've always liked to draw and make things and these 3D solid modeling programs really do a great job of combining those activities. Just draw all of the parts as though you were making them in real life and combine them into assemblies and see what the whole shebang looks like. You can revolve stuff any way that you want it, turn off the visibility of parts (thats what I did with the cover on the second pic) and change from orthographic to perspective with one button click. I use Inventor 8 which is getting pretty ancient now...but will do anything that I want or need. I can't even begin to imagine what is going on in the background in these programs as they are all mathematics based.
As far as why I am hanging around Bucket sites, that is what I cut my hot rod teeth on. A friend and I built one back in 1959-61. Here is part of a page from Rod & Custom from back then about that car.
Currently, I have a collection of stuff over here in the corner that if you close your eyes real tight and turn your imagination up full blast, you can almost see what might turn into a track roadster.
It's been that way for about 12 years now! It's kind of hard getting enthused about working nights and weekends on your own stuff after you spend 6 days a week working on other peoples stuff. Oh well, maybe someday. Guess that I'm just a Buckethead without the Bucket.I probably shouldn't have gotten into this on this thread, don't mean to hijack it, just trying to answer the questions.
George Barnes
George, I remember your T. Wasn't it used for a model build-up a couple of years later? This is one of the cars that had a huge impact on the cars my friends and I were trying to build in the '60's.
Watch out for this site. It's infectous! It's cut my time in the shop down for a while now. But that's OK, we're spreading the gospel.
Ron
Watch out for this site. It's infectous! It's cut my time in the shop down for a while now. But that's OK, we're spreading the gospel.
Ron
GAB
Member
Ron,
Just a quick correction. That car was owned by Larry Ryan. We built it together nad it ended up that we both had almost equal amounts of time and money in it, but it was his.
I don't think that any models were made of this car, but I seem to recall a model kit of Roth's Tweety Pie bucket. It was a lot like this one as it too had no bed or turtle deck out back.
You might have seen this car at car shows that Ray Fahrner put on here in the midwest. Larry traded the car to a local fellow who then sold it to Farhner and he gave it away as a door prize at several shows. He'd then buy it back and do it again. It was known as the X-Tee Bumble Bee. Here in K.C when Larry had it, it was known as "The Tee" in large part because it was the only one around. We didn't built them with credit cards and 800 phone numbers back in those days.
You might have also seen it in some of Speedways catalogs. A later configuration can be seen in this link. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AboutSpeedway.aspx#
They really crapped up the appearance of the car as far as I am concerned. :sad: I saw the car a few years ago and even with the changes, most of the original parts are still with it. Surprising!
I can assure you that Larry's car was NOT a Speedway Kit. We didn't even know of Speedways existence then. The parts that were aftermarket were bought from Arrow Speed Shop in K.C.
Way more info than you probably wanted.
Just a quick correction. That car was owned by Larry Ryan. We built it together nad it ended up that we both had almost equal amounts of time and money in it, but it was his.
I don't think that any models were made of this car, but I seem to recall a model kit of Roth's Tweety Pie bucket. It was a lot like this one as it too had no bed or turtle deck out back.
You might have seen this car at car shows that Ray Fahrner put on here in the midwest. Larry traded the car to a local fellow who then sold it to Farhner and he gave it away as a door prize at several shows. He'd then buy it back and do it again. It was known as the X-Tee Bumble Bee. Here in K.C when Larry had it, it was known as "The Tee" in large part because it was the only one around. We didn't built them with credit cards and 800 phone numbers back in those days.
You might have also seen it in some of Speedways catalogs. A later configuration can be seen in this link. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AboutSpeedway.aspx#
They really crapped up the appearance of the car as far as I am concerned. :sad: I saw the car a few years ago and even with the changes, most of the original parts are still with it. Surprising!
I can assure you that Larry's car was NOT a Speedway Kit. We didn't even know of Speedways existence then. The parts that were aftermarket were bought from Arrow Speed Shop in K.C.
Way more info than you probably wanted.
flatheadgary
Member
i really like the rear mount. i built a vw trike in '76 and used 2 quarter eliptics under the trans going from the center to the right and left and attached to the axle ends with shackles. it was the best ride and stance i have ever felt and saw. naturally, the vw had a somewhat independent action which i think helped the ride.
now for my question, do you think that one bolt that attaches the spring mount to the frame is going to be strong enough to hold the weight of the whole car and not bend or work harden the bolt?
for the spring mount to move, it could not be tight. i would imagine, it could be made of titanium or some kind of plastic, like a suspension bushing, either way, it would need lubing if made of metal.
i just might try it on my next ride!!
now for my question, do you think that one bolt that attaches the spring mount to the frame is going to be strong enough to hold the weight of the whole car and not bend or work harden the bolt?
for the spring mount to move, it could not be tight. i would imagine, it could be made of titanium or some kind of plastic, like a suspension bushing, either way, it would need lubing if made of metal.
i just might try it on my next ride!!
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