Pleass critique my planned fuel sysytem
- Thread starter rbsWELDER
- Start date
Mike
Well-Known Member
@Golly is correct, that roll over valve is designed to be used at a fuel cell.
Here are a couple of things to think about. Just food for thought.
Whilst a roll over valve can be a handy thing on a race car, where a driver might be incapacitated or otherwise unable to get out of the wreckage, if a T-Bucket ends up on its top, where does that leave the driver and possible passenger/s? The 'top' of a T-Bucket is the driver's head. If a T-Bucket rolls, what chance does the driver have? At that point, a roll over valve suddenly represents just two more connections where leaks can develop. I know, it a rather macabre scenario, but reality is reality.
By a show of hands, how many of you make regular adjustments to your fuel pressure regulators? By 'regular', I mean every time you start the engine, once a week, once a month, or even once a year. OK, hands down. Now, by a show of hands, how many of you have mounted those wee, 1.5", oil-filled, fuel pressure gauges on a regulator or on a fuel log? OK, hands down. Now, by a show of hands, how many of that number are actually capable of monitoring fuel pressure on those gauges, whilst driving the car?
I recall someone (RPM, was it you?) had a panel mounted at the back of the motor with a couple of 2.625" gauges in it. Now, that would be the way to have a fuel pressure gauge set up, if you genuinely felt one was actually necessary. If you cannot actually read the gauge under normal driving conditions, what good is it?
One more time. By a show of hands, how many of you with a fuel pressure gauge you can actually read whilst driving the car actually carry, in the car, the necessary tools to adjust the regulator? If you don't have the ability to adjust the regulator, whilst on the road, then why worry about being able to read pressure, whilst on the road?
The majority of you are running over-kill fuel systems, in the first place. Put a test gauge on the regulator, set the pressure, lock the jam nut and forget about it. Next Spring, when you are getting the car out of Winter storage, hook up your test gauge, verify that nothing has changed and go drive the car.
Here are a couple of things to think about. Just food for thought.
Whilst a roll over valve can be a handy thing on a race car, where a driver might be incapacitated or otherwise unable to get out of the wreckage, if a T-Bucket ends up on its top, where does that leave the driver and possible passenger/s? The 'top' of a T-Bucket is the driver's head. If a T-Bucket rolls, what chance does the driver have? At that point, a roll over valve suddenly represents just two more connections where leaks can develop. I know, it a rather macabre scenario, but reality is reality.
By a show of hands, how many of you make regular adjustments to your fuel pressure regulators? By 'regular', I mean every time you start the engine, once a week, once a month, or even once a year. OK, hands down. Now, by a show of hands, how many of you have mounted those wee, 1.5", oil-filled, fuel pressure gauges on a regulator or on a fuel log? OK, hands down. Now, by a show of hands, how many of that number are actually capable of monitoring fuel pressure on those gauges, whilst driving the car?
I recall someone (RPM, was it you?) had a panel mounted at the back of the motor with a couple of 2.625" gauges in it. Now, that would be the way to have a fuel pressure gauge set up, if you genuinely felt one was actually necessary. If you cannot actually read the gauge under normal driving conditions, what good is it?
One more time. By a show of hands, how many of you with a fuel pressure gauge you can actually read whilst driving the car actually carry, in the car, the necessary tools to adjust the regulator? If you don't have the ability to adjust the regulator, whilst on the road, then why worry about being able to read pressure, whilst on the road?
The majority of you are running over-kill fuel systems, in the first place. Put a test gauge on the regulator, set the pressure, lock the jam nut and forget about it. Next Spring, when you are getting the car out of Winter storage, hook up your test gauge, verify that nothing has changed and go drive the car.
2old2fast
Active Member
I'll agree that many of us are running "overkill" fuel systems... myself included.... however I have a panel-mounted pressure gauge that I can read thru the windshield... Mike"s right , it's pretty much a set it & forget it , mine's been set the same for 5 or 6 years & has never fluctuated from the original setting.... it is kinda reassuring though, running down the road & KNOWING the fuel pump's happy ... plus the gauge looks "racey"
dave
dave
Isn't the "tip over valve" a vent that's mounted on the fuel cell/gas tank that closes when it tips over thus keeping the gas in the tank? or were you thinking of a shut off switch? like ... https://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CR-92
Mike
Well-Known Member
@2old2fast - There is certainly a lot to be said for looking the part, but I'm the guy that always wanted to spend money on what would actually run faster, rather than spending it on what would just look faster.
@HenrysT - The valve he indicated is used on a fuel cell vent, which will close if inverted.
To give everyone an idea of what I meant by over-kill, if you take a 110 GPH pump and regulate it back into the 6 lb. range, you now have a pump that is a lot closer to a 70 GPH pump. That 110 GPH number is free flow, so it is just another phony advertising number. At around 65° F, a typical gallon of gasoline will weigh around 6 lbs. So that pump is capable of flowing 420 lbs. per hour.
If we look at brake specific fuel consumption, we're looking at a dynamic number that will change with engine speed and engine load. But a typical street engine will be happy if the brake number is around .5 pounds of fuel per horsepower per hour. If we apply that .5 brake number to 420 pounds per hour, we suddenly have a pump that can maintain 840 horsepower.
Tell me again why you need that massive, over-priced fuel pump on your street rod?
When you're shopping for a fuel pump, you first need to be honest with yourself on just how much power your engine is really capable of making. And the only way to do that is to run the engine on a dyno, so you have honest facts to work with. When people start telling me they have a 350 CID engine making in excess of 400 HP, I bite holes in my tongue, to keep from asking to see the dyno sheets. I spent too many years working in a speed shop with a dyno, so I know what it takes to make X-amount of horsepower. The guy who says he is making 400+ HP with a 350 is the same guy who will tell you he is getting 25 MPG on the road. But he is the same guy that never can seem to find those dyno sheets he somehow 'misplaced'. (He is also the same guy who is thankful for those dividers between the urinals in the men's room. )
@HenrysT - The valve he indicated is used on a fuel cell vent, which will close if inverted.
To give everyone an idea of what I meant by over-kill, if you take a 110 GPH pump and regulate it back into the 6 lb. range, you now have a pump that is a lot closer to a 70 GPH pump. That 110 GPH number is free flow, so it is just another phony advertising number. At around 65° F, a typical gallon of gasoline will weigh around 6 lbs. So that pump is capable of flowing 420 lbs. per hour.
If we look at brake specific fuel consumption, we're looking at a dynamic number that will change with engine speed and engine load. But a typical street engine will be happy if the brake number is around .5 pounds of fuel per horsepower per hour. If we apply that .5 brake number to 420 pounds per hour, we suddenly have a pump that can maintain 840 horsepower.
Tell me again why you need that massive, over-priced fuel pump on your street rod?
When you're shopping for a fuel pump, you first need to be honest with yourself on just how much power your engine is really capable of making. And the only way to do that is to run the engine on a dyno, so you have honest facts to work with. When people start telling me they have a 350 CID engine making in excess of 400 HP, I bite holes in my tongue, to keep from asking to see the dyno sheets. I spent too many years working in a speed shop with a dyno, so I know what it takes to make X-amount of horsepower. The guy who says he is making 400+ HP with a 350 is the same guy who will tell you he is getting 25 MPG on the road. But he is the same guy that never can seem to find those dyno sheets he somehow 'misplaced'. (He is also the same guy who is thankful for those dividers between the urinals in the men's room.
)
benT
Active Member
As always - you are spot on. Personally, I run a liquid filled pressure gauge just to make sure I stay within the recommended psi on the edelbrocks. Its helped me to trouble shoot a pressure issue I had which ended up being a blockage in the line. I do have a regulator, but it is not over the top and is under the car plumbed in the line after the fuel pump - I only added it when I switched to the electric pump. Did I say I HATE electric fuel pumps? Loud, noisy, and a pain in the ass. The new build is getting a stock 50 g/hr mechanical pump
Screaming Metal
Active Member
I have a mercury switch on mine, anything over 30 Degrees tilt and my pump turns off and ign. is killed....but I also have a rollbar and lapbelts....rollover valves are good.
Well shortly after I switched I decided to tear the T-bucket down and rebuild it fixing all the things I should have done differently. Then a '76 XJ IRS fell in my lap so I'm in the process of reworking the frame. The New Engine will be a DART SHP SBC 406 cu in, with all steel bottom end and forged blower pistons. I'm going to switch up the EFI to use throttle bodies, instead of the bug catcher. I couldn't quite get the bug catcher to give me a smooth acceleration\deceleration action I was looking for. I'm also switching to a crank trigger vs using the distributor for more accurate timing. I think EFI is the way to go especially with all of the new advancements with the technology going into the ECU's. I really like F.A.S.T's new EZ EFI and Holley's line of ECU's is pretty impressive. Would I do it again? Heck yeah!
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Yes, in deed GT, I Love the Terminator EFI....its is nice, just installed one. Since I had the front end of my T crunched by a truck, I'm changing a few thing also....
The Terminator EFI responded really well to the BigBlock, and with a alum. 4x2 hi-rise setup, I picked up 25 horses starting at 44oorpm with the addition of a 1" spacer under the throttlebodys....
But man, that throttle response is Awesome!
The Terminator EFI responded really well to the BigBlock, and with a alum. 4x2 hi-rise setup, I picked up 25 horses starting at 44oorpm with the addition of a 1" spacer under the throttlebodys....
But man, that throttle response is Awesome!
Mike
Well-Known Member
Thread drift happens. Especially around here.
Your layout looks good. As mentioned earlier, I would save a bit of dosh by eliminating a couple of those components, but other than that, things look OK to me.
Hook a hard line to the tank's vent port, put a coil or two in it, then run it down, along the side of the tank. At the bottom of the tank, clamp a Chrysler-style fuel filter (Wix 33032) to the end of the line. We don't need no steenking rollover valves and no fancy vent filters, when we can make them for pennies on the dollar. Heck, if you cannot bend the tubing in a coil, use regular fuel hose to do the job. I'm betting you can buy 3' of fuel hose, a fuel filter and a couple of clamps for a lot less than the $25 that whiz-bang, double-throwdown rollover valve and filter is going to cost you. It might not look quite as trick, but this silly rabbit learned a long, long time ago that tricks are for kids. Spend your money where it will show or where it will actually make a performance difference, rather than spending it to hide away.
Here are some ideas and suggestions on how to DIY.
Especially around here.Your layout looks good. As mentioned earlier, I would save a bit of dosh by eliminating a couple of those components, but other than that, things look OK to me.
Hook a hard line to the tank's vent port, put a coil or two in it, then run it down, along the side of the tank. At the bottom of the tank, clamp a Chrysler-style fuel filter (Wix 33032) to the end of the line. We don't need no steenking rollover valves and no fancy vent filters, when we can make them for pennies on the dollar. Heck, if you cannot bend the tubing in a coil, use regular fuel hose to do the job. I'm betting you can buy 3' of fuel hose, a fuel filter and a couple of clamps for a lot less than the $25 that whiz-bang, double-throwdown rollover valve and filter is going to cost you. It might not look quite as trick, but this silly rabbit learned a long, long time ago that tricks are for kids.
Spend your money where it will show or where it will actually make a performance difference, rather than spending it to hide away.Here are some ideas and suggestions on how to DIY.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Dude, think ya got it! Looks Good!!!!
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