setting up engine and transmission..

[Brucer]

ok i'm at a point i'm moving my engine and transmission back in the frame.

basicly moved my engine mounts back 2 inches .. it was 21-1/8 from the rear of the front crossmember, i moved the mounts back 2 inches, making it measure 23 1/8 from the front crossmember.

i'm also using a 700r4 transmission, this chassis was originally setup for a th350. so thats putting me having to move the transmission crossmember and also putting a drop in the transmission crossmember also..

this chassis was origianlly made from the ccr plans, and lengthened to 114" wheelbase, (center of front wheels to center of rear wheels, close anywyas)

The rear of the chassis was way up in the air, just to much rake for my taste, so ive dropped the rear down, and have set it on jack stands where i want it at ride height..


In lowering the chassis, i needed to move the engine mounts up so i have some ground clearance...so ive put the engine mounts level with the top of the frame, that will give me around 5 inches of clearance at the oilpan.

Now i'm getting ready to set the transmission/driveline angle... heres where my Question comes...

What angle do i need the block setting.. should it be level? should it be at a negative 3 degrees (transmission pointing down 3 degrees)? or should the top of the intake be level ???

 

[HAceT]

ok i'm at a point i'm moving my engine and transmission back in the frame.

basicly moved my engine mounts back 2 inches .. it was 21-1/8 from the rear of the front crossmember, i moved the mounts back 2 inches, making it measure 23 1/8 from the front crossmember.

i'm also using a 700r4 transmission, this chassis was originally setup for a th350. so thats putting me having to move the transmission crossmember and also putting a drop in the transmission crossmember also..

this chassis was origianlly made from the ccr plans, and lengthened to 114" wheelbase, (center of front wheels to center of rear wheels, close anywyas)

The rear of the chassis was way up in the air, just to much rake for my taste, so ive dropped the rear down, and have set it on jack stands where i want it at ride height..


In lowering the chassis, i needed to move the engine mounts up so i have some ground clearance...so ive put the engine mounts level with the top of the frame, that will give me around 5 inches of clearance at the oilpan.

Now i'm getting ready to set the transmission/driveline angle... heres where my Question comes...

What angle do i need the block setting.. should it be level? should it be at a negative 3 degrees (transmission pointing down 3 degrees)? or should the top of the intake be level ???

I set mine top of intake level. And I believe that is the correct way.

 

[Ted Brown]

That is the correct way in a stocker, but we are not talking stock, hidden under a hood, make it fit and look good as well as hook up to the rear end correctly..

 

[der Spieler]

Here's a link to the Inland Empire site that has an article on pinion angle with graphics showing examples of proper alignment. Inland Empire Driveline Service, Inc. - Driveshafts, Pinion and Transmission Yokes, Center Support Bearings When I set mine up I set my angle finder on the top edge of the cylinder head and lowered the transmission until I had less than 3 degrees down angle. Then I adjusted my radius rods until I had the pinion pointed up at the same angle making the centerline of the pinion and the transmission output shaft parallel.

 

[Brucer]

thanks der spieler, thats what i was looking for..

i was thinking 3 deg. down on the engine, and 3 degrees up on the rear pinion. just couldnt remember for sure...

and actually ma-n-pa-t come up with a good point also. when you set up for a T bucket your pipes come into play, if you put alot of angle on your engine, your pipes will have alot of angle on them. so the closer to level, the better for your pipes, but if you get to straight you get more u-joint wear and also driveline vibrations, so you have to have some angle in there..

 

[der Spieler]

Another source I read said that 3 degrees was absolute the limit. They recommend something less than that. My next build will be somewhere around 1 degree or maybe a little more.

 

[Brucer]

ok ma-n-pa-t said his was at 1 1/2 deg ... i think i'm gonna lean about 1 1/2 degrees :lol:

 

[Youngster]

i like to use the 3 degree minus to be sure the needle bearings in the u-joints rotate. a good rule of thumb is to set the level on the carb base. thay will, in most cases, automaticly give you the 3 degrees. for the sake of appearance you can cheat a little on that though.

Ron

 

[T4TWO]

Lots of good info here. I'm going with a level carb base to a 2* drop from the engine and transmission and 2* up/down on my pinion angle.

 

[Tbucit]

I, like Ted, believe that you make it look good meaning the engine. You will need to have the correct angle on the driveshaft and this can be done with the engine level. I don't level the carb base as this has an angle made into it. I level the engine and then make a tapered shim to level the carb. This keep the headers fairly level and the engine not tilted back into the fire wall. But this is the "look" that I like.
Randall
If I did this right the headers should be level on this one.

And this one has the tilt back

 

[EX JUNK]

I happen to like my pipes running parallel with the body. Too many different angles break up the flow of everything in my opinion.

Jim

 

[der Spieler]

I have to agree with that. Most people have them parallel to the ground, or close to it. I don't care for that look. My next one will have block huggers and exhaust running under the car. some people say there is no room to run it under but I had Sanderson Limefires on my last T and ran the exhaust under and everything fit fine. It just takes a little planning.

Your oil pan is almost at the scrub line isn't it. Do you ever bump it?

 

[EX JUNK]

I have no problem with hitting the pan, but just in case, I'm using a Slam Guard pan. It has a 3/16" skid plate incorporated with it. I might also add that here in Florida we have rather good roads. I also am not an off-roader, if that was what I wanted I would have built a Jeep or a truck.

Jim

 

[Tbucit]

Jim, your headers are just one of many things that makes your car look great. Just the perfect stance.

Randall

 

[Ted Brown]

Yes the header exhaust line is important to the look for sure, will try a pic one time,

http://www.tbucketeers.com/forum/me...my-babies/251-new-long-wheelbase-roadster.jpg

 

[GAB]

Here in Missouri, we have hills, even mountains in some parts of the state. It seems like we spend very little time on level ground, mostly up hills and down hills. And sometimes we even get caught setting at a stop light that is either uphill or downhill. And it don't seem to make much difference to the engine. It just keeps on running. No problems with oil pressure or fuel system. So what does that tell me? Maybe that the angle of the engine in relation to the ground is not real important.


Have you ever thought about why the carburetor base is angled in relation to the engine centerline? Did you ever notice that the flathead manifolds don't have the angled carburetor base? What happened between the flathead era and the overhead era to make this change. Maybe the introduction of independent fronts and the large front crossmembers that the engine had to clear and the designers desire to keep the front floors as low as possible even with the bulk of the then new automatic transmissions. The solution was to tip the engine a little to try to gain these objectives. Since a float bowl was involved and some gravity, they probably thought that it might be a good idea to shoot for the average condition.


As far as angling the driveline to promote bearing movement, that is not restricted to the vertical plane of the driveshaft. It can be in the horizontal plane and generally is. Most installations have the pinion offset to the centerline of the engine and transmission.

These are just my thoughts about these subjects. :lol:

 

[Brucer]

exjunk,
so your engine is setting parrallel with your chassis i guess?
what did you do on the rearend as far as pinion angle on the rear... all ive ever seen or dealt with was an angle on the engine and transmission, so this is new to me..



i'm going to run a frankland quickchange and the pinion is centered..

 

[Ted Brown]

George, you are real good at explaning things so that the new or OLD fellows will try and understand why we do things the way we do with these type of cars.. The good old days were mostly closed drive lines, a real good match up...

 

[GAB]

This was a duplicate post from another thread...Sorry!

 

[bobscogin]

Have you ever thought about why the carburetor base is angled in relation to the engine centerline? Did you ever notice that the flathead manifolds don't have the angled carburetor base? What happened between the flathead era and the overhead era to make this change.

I think I've got an answer (hand in air)! What happened can be explained within the context of drive train / suspension development. Until 1949, Ford used torque tube drives which only had a universal joint at the transmission output. Throughout the suspension travel, the drive shaft was always on the same axis as the pinion as they shared a common axis and the shaft moved with the rear end housing. The single joint made parallelism between the crank/trans centerline and pinion centerline a non-issue. The engine could be level and the ball socket / u-joint in the torque tube handled the angular changes at the trans. Parallelism between pinion and crank / trans centerline became important when the open drive shaft with a joint at each end replaced the torque tube. Sound right?

Bob