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STEERING

Discussion in 'T-Bucket Suspension Articles' started by Arizona Desert, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. Arizona Desert

    Arizona Desert
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    My t bucket seems to be all over the road except when I get past 50 Any suggestions? Just got car. My first Rod.
     
  2. old round fart

    old round fart
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    Got radials on front? I’d check front end alignment. Welcome to the world of bucketheads.
     
  3. 2old2fast

    2old2fast
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    Make sure everything is tight , no sloppy joints , steering gear adjusted , tire pressure , the FE alignment.. that's a start
     
    Guy likes this.
  4. T-Test

    T-Test
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    Frontend shimmy is caused by a number of things.

    The combination of worn out components and or frontend alignment will cause serious problems.

    First and foremost, the components that make up the steering assembly must be in good condition. These components are:

    Tierod ends
    Heim Joints
    King Pins and bushings
    Steering links
    Drag link
    Radius rods
    Pittman arm
    Steering box bushings
    Hub bearings
    Shackle bushings

    All of these components must be in good condition. Replace any part which shows wear, or movement beyond design specifications. If in doubt, replace it.

    Assuming all of your components are OK, the next step is to align the frontend. If your T Bucket has bias ply tires then you should have a maximum of 1/8" toe in. Radials should be "0" to 1/8" toe out maximum.

    The final step, (and VERY important) is to balance the complete rotating assembly! Attempt to balance your tires mounted on the hubs if possible. If this option is not available to you, then balance the components separately. Your drums or rotors and tires must be accurately balanced!

    Tire inflation has been a subject of controversy for a very long time. But there is a basic starting point. For spoked wheels, (motorcycle type) start at MAXIMUM inflation. Generally 45/50 lbs. For all other tires, start at 28/32 lbs. Test your T on several road surfaces especially rough roads. Inflate or deflate your tires to minimize bouncing. You will always get some bouncing, but less is better. Make sure that both front tires have EXACTLY the same air pressure.

    There is a big difference between shimmy and bounce! You need to avoid shimmy at all costs! This is a self induced harmonic which will destroy your whole frontend and possibly cause a serious accident. Shimmy starts when the rotating mass (tires, wheels, hubs, and rotors or drums) harmonics go into oscillation with the steering components(links, bushings, rods, and tie rods). They "push" against each other causing a violent back & fourth motion (Shimmy). Because this motion is self induced, it progresses until something breaks, or over come by an external force (IE: hit the brakes and slow down). It is imperative that your frontend be in absolutely perfect working order.

    Have you ever rolled a tire around your garage, or down a street before? If you have, then you may recall how the surface governed the direction the tire rolled. This same condition exists on your T Bucket. To overcome this, a frontend alignment is setup to create an equal force on both front wheels. This effect is called "toe in" or "toe out". This equal force tends to overcome most road surfaces, making the frontend responsive to the drivers command. However, too much of either can create a new set of problems. Tire scuffing will be the first on the list. Then there is the problem of shimmy. Toe in tends to cause shimmy more than toe out. Zero toe in/toe out will virtually eliminate shimmy however your frontend will feel "loose". In other words, your car will walk back and forth while cruising. This effect is usually manageable, but annoying. Regardless which "toe" effect you need, limit the adjustment to a maximum of 1/8" The next adjustment available to you is "CASTER". This is the tilting of your king pin bosses. This caster effect tends to make your front wheels follow the centerline of the front axle. Caster is good for helping your T track straight. You always want the caster effect to "follow" your axle. You adjust your caster by adjusting the length of the UPPER clevises on your radius rods. Typically, about 5 degrees of caster is plenty, and in some cases 2 or 3 degrees is all thats required. Have you ever pushed a shopping cart around a grocery store, and noticed sometimes the front wheels shimmy? Thats way too much caster! So go easy on your caster adjustment. Finally, there is camber... you can't change it easily because it's built into the king pin bosses. However, as your king pin bushings wear out, you induce more camber. So check your king pins & bushings occasionally for wear.

    From the NTBA
     
  5. T-Test

    T-Test
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    1
    3472 5
    Th
    . St Unit # 6
    * Chino, CA 91710 * Phone: 909
    -
    3
    93
    -
    4005 * Fax: 909
    -
    627
    -
    1188
    1
    Chassis A
    lignment, Dimensioning
    Tire hop or shaking issues are common in a chassi
    s when the front and rear end are
    not
    set up or dimensioned correctly.
    A few different
    th
    ings cause this situation.
    Try
    to
    go thru these in
    close
    order.
    *Check all rod ends
    and kingpin bushings for play caused by wear.
    *Check to see if there is any play from spindle boss to spi
    ndle and shim as needed.
    *C
    heck the preload in the bearings
    *Hydraulic or gas shocks should be used on the front and rear suspension, and in good
    wor
    king order.
    *The suspension should be movable by pushing down on the front and rear of the car, if
    this moves too freely the spring rates are too low, the car will probably bottom out on
    small bumps and damage suspension components. If the car is too fir
    m the ride quality
    will suffer along with your back and any attaching frame bracketry
    *Make sure there is nothing
    limiting the
    suspension travel except the shocks or bump
    stops.
    down travel (around 2 1/2")
    up travel (
    no less than 3/4”)
    Shock tr
    avel is the normal limiting factor. This would be from standard ride he
    ight.
    Installing bump stops to limit bottoming
    will help extend the shock life.
    *Make sure
    the
    front end and rear end are centered
    to the frame.
    ** These bar adjustments should be m
    ade with tires on the groun
    d and the cars
    weight on stands. J
    ack up the car under the front axle and
    rear
    housing until the
    tires lift off the ground no more than 1".Put stands under the frame on both sides
    front and rear and
    let the car back down on it's
    tires.
    Use caution removing the
    bolts as the front or rear end may be loaded, this is what you are trying to fix
    .
    *When adjusting bars make sure all bolts go in easy without lifting or tweaking to
    assemble, this will make certain the suspension will no
    t be in a bind and create a loaded
    situation. For example, the radius rods when unbolted from the frame need to be off the
    ground the same amount on each side, lift them slightly and measure and push down
    slightly and measure this will give the most accura
    te reading.
    *Check measurements from the bottom of the front center perch bolt to the outside of
    both
    ends of rear end housing at flange.
    *Pinion angle should be set to match the motor and trans angle, usually 2
    -
    3 degrees
    yoke up.
    1
    3472 5
    Th
    . St Unit # 6
    * Chino, CA 91710 * Phone: 909
    -
    3
    93
    -
    4005 * Fax: 909
    -
    627
    -
    1188
    2
    *Repeat from bottom ce
    nter of the rear end housing (use tape and mark center on
    housing) to the bottoms of the front king pins.
    Get these dimensions + or
    -
    1/16".
    *Double check that the
    panard bar is centering the rear end after the adjustments were
    made.
    *Front axle shoul
    d be at 5 to 7 degrees laid back at top when car is flat on the ground
    (on tires).
    *Make sure tires are balanced correctly and pressures are correct
    *Steering box rotation should be centered, adjust the drag link to make the tires line up
    straight.
    *Mak
    e adjustments to the steering wheel once the car is driving straight.
    *The toe adjustment
    should start at 1/8" toe out..(front of tires wider then rear of tire).
    This can be adjusted easily once back on the ground
    and driving, using two 15/16"
    wrenches.
    *Road t
    est at varying speeds,
    hard acceleration and braking. Adjust
    tie rod
    one rotation
    at a time until you find what the tires/car likes.(do not jack the car back up to do the toe
    adjustment).
    Unrelated to the suspension, but also check;
    *Free play in
    the brake pedal pushrod, this should have about 1/16” of movement before
    depressing the master cylinder piston.
    *Check that the driveshaft is into the transmission tailshaft correct. This should be
    pushed all the way in and pull out about 7/8” to 1”. This
    is more important if the
    driveshaft is super short, make sure the rear end can go thru its full travel without
    bottoming out the driveshaft yoke in the transmission.
    *Make sure all hardware has lock washers, nylocks or safety wire
    This is
    a
    two to t
    hree hour
    job for two people, bu
    t pays off big time in
    the
    driv
    ability of your car.
    Your Hot Rod should drive just as any other
    car does when set up correct. M
    ost
    people spend countless hours building these cars and for some reason many will not
    put i
    n the time to do this last step. Spring rates, shock lengths
    (
    and types
    ) and
    tire
    pressures are all adjustable. Put in the added time..it will be worth it in added safety and
    the overall enjoyment
    you will have with your car.

    From CCR
     
    Tony Dantzler likes this.
  6. 2old2fast

    2old2fast
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    The last 2 posts are akin to dropping a Sears catalog size direction sheet for installing flashlight batteries , maybe just a bit of overkill ?!?!?way too much info all at once , reminds me of " dazzling with brilliance," vs " baffling with bull shit," I'm not sure which is worse ...
     
    409T likes this.
  7. T-Test

    T-Test
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    This is to help those that are not like all and are mechanically inclined, like you and me, 2old2fast. All here are chasing a dream, so no bull shit happening here. JMTCW

    If they can read and follow directions, anyone can do this per the instructions. No bull shit.
     
  8. 2old2fast

    2old2fast
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    With all the best intentions I have to disagree , prime example being my older brother , brilliant math mind , does trig in his head , should NEVER be allowed to touch anything mechanical , I promise , regardless of the instruction received , he'll break it , think about the people you know , we all know one ..
     
  9. T-Test

    T-Test
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    Well you just can't fix stupid.
     
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  10. 2old2fast

    2old2fast
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    It's not stupid ,it's a total lack of mechanical aptitude and no manual dexterity..
     
  11. T-Test

    T-Test
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    Well then, how about over educated idiot?

    Yes I have one that has 3 PHDs and 2 Doctorates and he can't figure out how to install a florescent light bulb without breaking it.
     
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  12. 2old2fast

    2old2fast
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    Yep , those are the ones !!
     
  13. T-Test

    T-Test
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    And I don't know how the CCR info got broken up like that. Computer glitch, I guess.
     
  14. HenrysT

    HenrysT
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    It's nice to have all the info in one place, instead of a fragment here and then a few posts down, a little more. At least they know the whole procedure and how to go about it. If they have to read a paragraph at a time... print it out... make a check list... so be it.
     
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  15. Neshkoro

    Neshkoro
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    The information listed above is all great information. Just go through it step by step and check everything and when you are finished you will be happy with the results. Especially if you are having problems with wander, wheel bounce, death wobble! You spent all that time building your car, why not spend some more time to make it right and fun to drive! Some time the simplest change can make a big difference. A prime example is my new front tires. I was having a lot of wandering issues. I adjusted caster, toe-in and even camber. (Camber was a bugger. I had to make a fixture to hold my 20 ton hydraulic jack to bend the axle.) Nothing that I adjusted made a difference. The new tires was the cure. The new wheels were a bonus.
    Go for it. Worst case is it makes no difference. At least you will know all of that stuff is correct.
     
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  16. Gerry

    Gerry
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    Its all like a nut check on a race car, don't you think?
     
  17. fletcherson

    fletcherson
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    Sort of like tuning a fresh engine... take some time to dialit in.
     
  18. Neshkoro

    Neshkoro
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    That's it in a nutshell. Big nutshell!
     
  19. Arizona Desert

    Arizona Desert
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    THANK U trying to find local shop in Casa Grande or Maricopa AZ that can be trusted enough to do this worek
     
  20. Spanky

    Spanky
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    OK, out of curiosity I checked the Ackerman angle on my bucket, remembering that I took that factor into account when I first set it up, but have forgotten about it since. I notice that the apex of the two lines from the king pins through the tie rod ends winds up about 3 ft behind my rear axle. What ill effect can I expect from this? It seems to drive and handle fine, albeit with a rather large turning circle.
     






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