Tearing the t apart, gonna lengthen the chassis

[one finger john]

The motor in my t is a 406 sbc. Only one it has ever had. Why?

Was wondering if you had designed the frame for a different length engine. SBCs are pretty much industry standard. So I'm surprised that things are tight in the front. I would rather replace the frame rails, one weld at the Z and one weld at the front end instead of four welds with a splice. Just me.

John

 

[stretch]

Well John, each to their own. I would rather do the two welds in each side for my planned extension (I'm not sure where you got 4?), and only have to play with one bracket per side (moving the front radius rod brackets forward), then have to worry about the motor mounts, steering gear mount and tranny mount, among other things I have attached to the frame, like step brackets. I think this will work out just fine, but it will be a while before I can get it done anyways. Can't do much work on it while I'm in the Caribbean next month...

Thanks.

Frank

 

[old round fart]

I think John is concerned with the welds on each side of the extension. I think you are doing it like I would. If you wanted to cut down on the number of welds, make the cut as far forward as you can and remake the front cross member. The fish plates may even be overkill. This is not a bulldozer!

 

[stretch]

I still don't get it. There are the same amount of welds replacing the entire frame frame rail, as in adding an extension, as long as you don't count all the bracketry that has to be done (and done exactly correct) if you replace entire frame rails. The fellow doing this for me once I get it all set to go has I-beams he uses to clamp frame rails insuring they remain straight while plug welding, then plans on it taking place over like 4 hours to avoid heat warp. This guy knows what he's doing, has been there and done it before. I.e., this was not an original idea on my part. I expressed an interest in stretching my chassis, my buddy told me what I needed to do, and that by golly is exactly what I'm doing. My chassis as it is has perfectly exact diagonals, and I'm assured as long as each piece I cut for each side is exactly the same as the other, that will remain the case.

Frank

 

[old round fart]

Sounds like the guy doing it has his stuff together, so let him do his thing! Adding to the front is WAY easier than building a new frame.

 

[RESINATOR]

The CCR Plans were around long before we had a Long Body (extended). I think we started selling the Longer body in 1987, the first body was for the Street Rodder Give-away car. We added the door to that Body in 1992 with an integral floor and tunnel.
Our frame that the Plans follow is an extended version of the shorter frame of the early 70's, thus allowing room for longer motors or blowers. For the CCR Plans frame and a normal (standard) body, there is about 7" of space left in front of the radiator using a small block chevy with a short waterpump, 1923 T radiator and a 4 1/2" electric fan. The Long Body takes up 6 1/2" more space on the frame than our Standard Body, that doesn't leave much room for changes/variations of components but is done all the time.. to this day. The main reason the body was not made any longer was because of the Plans and the issues of people having made or already making the frame to those dimensions.
The Best advice is to pre-plan as much as possible and have all the final components if that can be done, we build different length frames all the time and adjust bracket locations when needed. I think Stretch has the right idea.. if he starts over on the frame the changes may never stop and the project may get hung up for some time.
Also, any frame we build that does not have a 14" bed gets the longer (+6")rear top kick.

 

[RESINATOR]

This is the CCR frame made for the 1926-27 T body. This body has a wheelwell, so planning is even more critical.

 

[stretch]

Thanks Jerry. I believe you guys have the best frames around, whether home built or store bought. When I wanted to build a 23t, I looked at a lot of alternatives, but will never forget getting the plan set from you guys. I opened it up and was amazed at all the 100% templates for the parts to build the chassis. I said to myself "Self, this is something you could do!" Being a novice, and a stickler for detail, it took me a while to be happy with my chassis, but when I got this hot rod on the road, she tracked nice and straight and true, took corners and mountain roads better than I would have ever thought, and was just a pleasure to drive (except in the rain...). After building it, my plan once I knew all the welds held was to strip it apart and paint it, but I knew even then I wanted more room up front. Then the company I worked for folded, and in one day I had lost my job. It took me a couple years to find another decent job, and I came real close to selling the bucket, but my little woman would simply not hear of it. So fast forward to now. This hot rod has literally 10's of 1,000's of miles on it, and the time has come. I couldn't think of a better way to extend the frame then just adding 6" or so up front, and am real lucky to have a friend who builds rods and knew exactly what to suggest. I'm doing all the prep, which is mostly building two 18" pieces of rectangular tubing out of 3/16 plate that will slide nicely into the 2X3X3/16 chassis tubing. Also, while the chassis is bare, I want to move the radiator mount back a bit and move the tranny mount back for the 700R4 I just bought.

This is where I got to last night:

This is the pile of steel for the stretch:

I'll keep y'all posted. This work will probably not be done till May sometime, just because of life interference!

Frank

 

[one finger john]

Frank, the four welds I was referring to was for two frame rails (two per rail). An alternate thought, and two less welds, would be to simply extend from your initial cut and use two single pieces of tubing and add a front cross member at the appropriate place.
I understand the method you will be using for the extensions, but for me, a weld always opens up the possibility of potential cracks. Eliminating half the welds eliminates half the potential for cracks or other problems.

That's it, enjoy the vaca, John

P.S. Ron Pope has way better lookin' front shock/ headlite mounts. Check 'em out @ RPM.

 

[stretch]

I get it now, thanks.

My front headlight mounts have upper shock attachments and the lower shock attachments are on the radius rods. They're also my signal lights and horn mounts. Ron has lots of neat good looking stuff, but I'll be staying with my existing ugly mounts. Thanks.

This is where I got to tonight...

 

[Mark Denton]

Resinator,
I assume this 26-27t frame has the added 24" in the main rails, as suggested in the "hints" sheet of the manual. By looking at a 27t body, you would think there is alot of foot room. Diane, in a phone conversation the other day, pointed out there just isn't as much as you would think there to be. I also have the download plans and done very well, in my opinion. When I started investigating this bucket hobby a month or so ago, I had no idea of the decisions one has to make, when you start from scratch! I would like to say I built the frame, but when you see pictures of the frames made and posted, it kind of makes me not want to go thru all the work to build one myself.
Mark

 

[Dino]

You have to admit they look top notch they do.

 

[stretch]

I'm 6' tall Mark, and in the Smooth (stretched) body CCR sells, I have my legs almost fully extended driving it. It is very roomy for a big fellow, and at least the body I bought 15 years ago was exceptionally strong and very well made.

While I had some fits and starts to my chassis, I also completed it in about 3 months, about 10 hours/week or so. At the time, there was very little help on the net, not at all like today. It's good in that there is lots of info; it's bad in that you have to figure out what is good info and what isn't!

Frank

Resinator,
I assume this 26-27t frame has the added 24" in the main rails, as suggested in the "hints" sheet of the manual. By looking at a 27t body, you would think there is alot of foot room. Diane, in a phone conversation the other day, pointed out there just isn't as much as you would think there to be. I also have the download plans and done very well, in my opinion. When I started investigating this bucket hobby a month or so ago, I had no idea of the decisions one has to make, when you start from scratch! I would like to say I built the frame, but when you see pictures of the frames made and posted, it kind of makes me not want to go thru all the work to build one myself.
Mark

 

[stretch]

Engine and tranny are out less than 24 hours from having the motor running like a kitten. Buddy of mine that is a chevy mechanic came down and helped me get it running. Stupid stuff - TV cable wasn't hooked up right, vacuum plug had deteriorated, idle adjustment was off. This is a buddy I did not have 15 years ago when I built this hot rod. When the frame is done and I re-install the motor, he's offered to come down, help me plumb it and set it up.

Hope y'all have a nice Easter.

Frank

 

[Joe-405]

nice build and how wide is your frame on the inside by chance ? I was curious cause i want to run that same alternator bracket. And thanks.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Cutting the frame and welding back together is a piece of cake, if you do it right.

The way I do it is where it needs to be lengthened at, mark your frame, both sides, with a tape. Get the frame as level as you can. If your frame is level with the slab, use a large carpenters square, make your marks inside and outside the frame. (I use my chassis jig for this)
From this line inside the frame, I measure 2" forward I make a line, then 2" back, I make another line. I use silverstreak so the lines won't come off easily, until I want them to.
Get a couple of pieces of 2x3 tubing, about 4' long, but they must be the same length. The marks 4" apart inside the frame, weld in a piece of 2 x 2 x 3/16's tubing in at both places. This will keep things from spreading and all, when things are cut. Now, you have 2 pieces of tubing welded 4" apart, with a mark in between them. Get your 4 1/2" grinder with a slicer wheel on it, cut across the bottom of your frame on both sides. Use either a file or a metal conditioning pad on your air tool to deburr your cut.
Then, with 2 big C-Clamps, put your 4' long pieces under your frame, centered with the cut line in the middle. Put the clamps toward the firewall side, 1 right above to cross bar you welded in, and the other about 6 inches in from the end of the bottom tube. Do this on both sides, and exactly the same way on the front section of the frame. Make sure that the rear clamps you did first are really tight, and that the lower tubing is straight with the frame.

Now, with your slicer wheel, cut all around your frame tubes on each side. Now, you can loosen the front frame c-clamps, slide it forward carefully on top of that lower tube, add your piece in, clamp the front end down again good and tight and straight then tack things back really well. Doublecheck for squareness and being straightness....thats the reason the the lower tubes being square and straight, for a good visual reference.
Put a good, strong weld on top, across both inside and outside, but don't weld up completely yet. Now, drop your lower pieces, run a weld across both bottom frame rails....on both sides. Gotta jump around alittle to keep uniform heat in the joint. If you welded it correctly, very little will be sticking up above the tubing, get a flapwheel on your 4 1/2" grinder and smooth the weld a little, for looks.

Do all your other stuff, touch up the paint, put her back together and get ready to go cruisin'

 

[Screaming Metal]

I always check, measuring in a X, across the frame, to get things perfect. Double and triple check your measurements and your welding. Always Air on the side of Caution....
I've seen many old altered frames 1/2 assed welded and straightened, and gassers, too. At my age, my covering grows back way too slow to enjoy sitting on the sidelines until my wounds heal up. Always be safe.
Its easy to get your steering and suspension all outta kilter to where the car doesn't handle or ride good. If theres any twisting or bowing, you can usually heat things up to stress relieve them.
If you ever cut it and thing start twisting and bowing, theres alot of stress buildup, sometimes the best thing then is to go to a new frame, when that happens.

 

[stretch]

Thanks Joe! It is a stock CCR chassis build, so the width is whatever the plans call for. I'm at work and don't have that stuff handy right now, but could get it for you tonight.

Frank

nice build and how wide is your frame on the inside by chance ? I was curious cause i want to run that same alternator bracket. And thanks.

 

[stretch]

Thanks Screamin Metal, that is absolutely great advice and much appreciated. As I do this, I will post pics, but other than set up, I am fortunate to have a pro doing the welding who knows what he's doing.

I took great (maybe obsessive?) pains with this chassis when I built it to get it absolutely level and perfectly square (on the diagonals), so I do know of what you speak. My welder buddy figures if I get everything set up for him, it may be like a 4 hour job to do so that not much heat is introduced at any one time. Other stuff I need to do is minor, although I may also have him do my new or revised tranny mount for the 700R4. I'm going to a local driveshaft shop for shortening my d-shaft...

Frank

 

[stretch]

Got the body off tonight. Kinda weird, tilted it forward taking it off and a cup or two of water came out!

Should have the frame bare before we leave on vacation next Tuesday morning, and the garage cleaned up so there's room to work on both the body and the frame...