The excitement is building

[Indycars]

By "seriously capable", I was talking about pumps in the 250 to 500 GPH and up range that support at least 1000 HP and well upwards.

Well that's another whole level above my system, I understand what you are saying now.

 

[HenrysT]

IG, How many G/H pump does your engine builder recommend? I recall reading some place where it takes so much fuel to produce so much HP.
Can you run your mech. pump (there's some that put out upwards of 170 G/H +) as a primary pump and run a Holley Black pump with it's own fuel line running to a "tee" just before the carb(s) with a pressure switch turning the pump on and off when you need it.

 

[409T]

Don't forget that all these thousands of gallons per hour must go through a 1/8" diameter hole in the needle and seat assembly.

 

[HenrysT]

How to Estimate Your Engine's Required Fuel Flow.

 

[Spanky]

Seems to me you are expecting way to much need for fuel. Acceleration in a t bucket happens so fast you will not need that much fuel. I would be surprised if you could keep your foot in it long enough to empty the fuel bowls.

I dunno, ORF. This gal cut her teeth racing drag boats! Those things are wild!!!

Pro Modified Drag Boats - Lakefest 2017 - Bing video

 

[Island Girl]

Seems to me you are expecting way to much need for fuel. Acceleration in a t bucket happens so fast you will not need that much fuel. I would be surprised if you could keep your foot in it long enough to empty the fuel bowls.

Good point . . . . . and probably pretty accurate.

I tend to approach things from a purely engineering perspective, (over engineering at that) . . . theoretical pounds per Hp hour need, G-Forces pushing the fuel in the line back towards the tank on acceleration that needs to be overcome, etc.

Stuff you never thought of with a 12 second car, start to be issues in a 10 second car, and flat ruin your day in an 8 second car.

I should probably dial it back a notch . . .maybe 2 . . .

 

[old round fart]

I had a 7 second car and a plane old Barry Grant pump.

 

[Island Girl]

IG, How many G/H pump does your engine builder recommend? I recall reading some place where it takes so much fuel to produce so much HP.
Can you run your mech. pump (there's some that put out upwards of 170 G/H +) as a primary pump and run a Holley Black pump with it's own fuel line running to a "tee" just before the carb(s) with a pressure switch turning the pump on and off when you need it.

I got the biggest Holley mechanical available when I bought it, . . . seems there's a bigger one now (the -25 series) . . .opps, it's no bigger, just a more expensive, more than twice as much, as it's a machined billet, not a casting.

Mechanicals are somewhat limited because they suck against, (limit of 15psi atmospheric pressure) instead of push against, the G forces on acceleration, but might be fine with an exhibition burnout that still uses a very high fuel flow rate.

Based on HenrysT's fuel flow chart, I need about 70 GPH, and would need that at a pre-carb regulator feed pressure, so nominally 15# to 25#.

If I wanted to add nitrous or go to methanol later, I'd need twice that, hence the initial overkill that would at least be up to the task of later whims . . .

 

[Neshkoro]

IG, can you drive long enough anywhere on that island that you can use up 70 GPH of fuel? I can’t even imagine going balls out ( pardon my expression) for more than 5 or 10 or 15 seconds at a time. Just my thoughts.

 

[Island Girl]

IG, can you drive long enough anywhere on that island that you can use up 70 GPH of fuel? I can’t even imagine going balls out ( pardon my expression) for more than 5 or 10 or 15 seconds at a time. Just my thoughts.

Maybe if they get the drag strip open again, lol . . . . they do keep talking about it . . .maybe this year if the Covid thing gets put behind us . . .

It's not that you have to run for very long, it's that the system has to deliver enough fuel under the absolute worst case scenario so as not to lean out and detonate.

Not being able to maintain a full float bowl level for the entire pass can wreak havoc in a near instant.

There was a reason you used to see the fuel tanks in the front of those old gassers and altereds.

 

[old round fart]

I see a -12 AN fuel line in your future! Lol

 

[Island Girl]

I see a -12 AN fuel line in your future! Lol

Dont lol too hard . . . .

I have both -8 and -10 already on-hand, as well as the frame clips to mount either.

-8 would be sufficient, but not allow too much "cushion" for future whims
-10 is overkill for now, but wouldn't ever have to be replaced

Probably won't be much of a surprise which one ends up installed, . . .lol

 

[Island Girl]

Thought you guys might like to see the T buckets of the river, the open cockpit V-Drive boats . .

Just about enough hull to float some massive big block monster motors.

Much like T buckets, these things trace back to the earliest of hot rod river racer days, . . . no wonder I love them both so much.

Smallest motors in the lot here are probably at least 750hp, with most being nearly twice that or more for the blown alcohol K-boats

If that wasn't excitement enough, here's the 2020 New Years bash:

 

[Indycars]

I tend to approach things from a purely engineering perspective, (over engineering at that)

I know many times that I won't be able to use the system I've built, but I sure enjoy the
design of a system that meets the needs if I could stay in the gas for a complete 1/4 mile.
I get lots of satisfaction from going thru the process.

I think maybe you might be having an internal fight going on between what is reasonable
and what I want !

I've heard that you don't want a glass smooth water, but just a little ripple .... is that true ?
Have you ever seen anyone thrown out of the boat when they lifted too fast at the finish line ?

 

[Neshkoro]

I guess it boils down to the amount of money you want to throw at something. Not throwing to make things operate better, just throwing to see how much you can spend! Whatever floats your boat. (That phrase kind of fits the problem at hand) If you have it and want to spend it, go for it. It's certainly your choice. I could go on but that's enough from me.

 

[Island Girl]

I know many times that I won't be able to use the system I've built, but I sure enjoy the
design of a system that meets the needs if I could stay in the gas for a complete 1/4 mile.
I get lots of satisfaction from going thru the process.

I think maybe you might be having an internal fight going on between what is reasonable
and what I want !

I've heard that you don't want a glass smooth water, but just a little ripple .... is that true ?
Have you ever seen anyone thrown out of the boat when they lifted too fast at the finish line ?

Different hull designs respond to varying surfaces in their own unique ways.

The "little ripples" came from needing to break the "sticktion" of a wetted surface for flat or semi V bottoms, Hydros do fine when it's glass smooth, almost flying on the ground effect.

Other hull design features can satisfactorily break the sticktion even on glass smooth water, but glass smooth ends after that first run anyway, lol

Never personally seen anyone roll over the deck from normal deceleration, get thrown out from a sudden sideways twerk, yes.

These things have been around in pretty much the current form for about 60 years, the motors get bigger, what works well gets more refined, and what didn't work so well has long since been left behind which is why they all seem so similar.

 

[Island Girl]

OK, Gang . . .

So I got my fuel system ordered and after talking to the Aeromotive tech guys, came up with a much more reasonable setup based around the A1000 pump, A1000 regulator, and still using the pump speed controller. mentioned previously. . . Also ordered the pre and post pump fuel filters for the A1000 series pumps.

( Got the pre-filter with the shutoff valve since my tank fitting is at the bottom and thought a shut-off might be a good idea )

Initially I got compression style fittings to mate the fuel line hard tubing to the -AN lines, but since this pump has greater pressure, that's subsequently dropped at the regulator, than first plans envisioned, I opted to get regular 37 degree flare fittings and a proper flaring tool to connect the hardline to the -AN lines.

I need to run a -10 AN supply to, and an -8 AN return line from, the regulator with this new setup.


Now the question becomes:

What stainless braided line should I use . . . . Rubber or PTFE

I want to use the same type for the fuel lines and the trans cooler lines for convenience, but not sure if I can use PTFE for the trans cooler lines or not.

The PTFE is a little smaller in OD for the same ID size, so may be a bit easier to run in tighter confines, but I've only ever used rubber before so I don't know much about the differences.

Some places say the PTFE doesn't get hard over time or seep vapors, so is preferable, but will it work OK with ATF for the trans cooler line

Does one have any advantages over the other, or is it pretty much the same either way, as long as it's for gasoline and not E85 or methanol?

Their doesn't seem to be that much of a cost difference, so that's not really a factor

Thanks in advance for your input . . . .

 

[Spanky]

Does this help?
Using AN PTFE hose for Transmission Cooler Lines (hotrodfuelhose.com)

 

[choppinczech]

This Earl's AN hose is pricey but looks to be the best out there. Especially for flexibility. Most PTFE lined hose is pretty stiff.

 

[Island Girl]

I ended up ordering some Aeromotive 6, 8 & 10 PTFE this morning.

Watched some videos on assembling the hose ends and while different from rubber, it's not really any harder.