Cadi 500 in a T-bucket

[CrAlt]

Hello,

Im slowly gathering bits and pieces for my t-bucket project.

I already have a powerglide and im planning on using this.. but need to find a 1970ish engine for my ride due to emissions laws in CT.

Ive been watching CL for a cheap 283 or 307 but the other day my friend mentioned that he needs to get rid of a junk cadi he has. its a '71 FWD with a 500cui engine. I looked on Jegs and they have an adapter to make it work with my PG.

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performa...2/10002/-1?parentProductId=751074#moreDetails

Has anyone ever put a cadi500 in to a T? Its only about 50-70lbs different in weight to a SBC..

Im wondering about cooling and length issues.

Other then switching out to a alum intake and maybe a better cam I wouldn't need much go-fast parts.. 370HP with 540lbs STOCK.

 

[deckofficer]

If memory serves, the Caddy 500 cid is only 20 lbs heavier than a small block and about 70 lbs lighter than a big block. Help me out guys.

Bob

 

[fordsbyjay]

I am sure I have seen a couple around here with caddy engines but I can't remember which members or whose cars they were. If you are just looking for cheap you could also look at 460's. They are cheap, make lots of power and are dependable. There are also a few members on the forum with 460s as well.

Good luck.

I tried the search function and came up with these. You will have to search through them but hopefully they can help you out.

http://www.tbucketeers.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1

 

[deckofficer]

I am sure I have seen a couple around here with caddy engines but I can't remember which members or whose cars they were. If you are just looking for cheap you could also look at 460's. They are cheap, make lots of power and are dependable. There are also a few members on the forum with 460s as well.

Good luck.

I tried the search function and came up with these. You will have to search through them but hopefully they can help you out.

http://www.tbucketeers.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1

The Ford 460 is 125 lbs heavier than the 500 Caddy.

Bob

 

[T-Odd]

'71 FWD caddy 500? Didn't know there was such an animal out there.

IF the Caddy 500 is in a RWD boat, you can pull the engine, trans, driveshaft and rear (the rear is W-I-D-E though).

There are a few bucketheads that have used the Caddy 500 and they LOVE it because of the stump pulling torque of the engine.

It doesn't like to go over something like 5000 rpm, but when you have gobs of torque who really cares about high rpm anyway?

There are a couple of EXCELLENT Cad 500 forums out there and they can tell you everything you need to know about that engine.

I still want one, just haven't found the 500 yet. Two 425s and one 472, but no 500 yet. YET.

(edit)
It seems that the Eldorado was FWD... I had no idea. Learn something new everyday.

 

[deckofficer]

T-Odd,

He does have a source for a '71 Cad 500 that was a transverse mount in a FWD Caddy. He has also found an adapter plate so that he can mount a traditional RWD transmission. Since it is a 1971 engine, Detroit did drop the compression ratio from 1970. If it is a ready to run engine, he might have the heads milled just a tad to regain the 1970 higher compression.

Bob

 

[deckofficer]

'71 FWD caddy 500? Didn't know there was such an animal out there.

IF the Caddy 500 is in a RWD boat, you can pull the engine, trans, driveshaft and rear (the rear is W-I-D-E though).

There are a few bucketheads that have used the Caddy 500 and they LOVE it because of the stump pulling torque of the engine.

It doesn't like to go over something like 5000 rpm, but when you have gobs of torque who really cares about high rpm anyway?

There are a couple of EXCELLENT Cad 500 forums out there and they can tell you everything you need to know about that engine.

I still want one, just haven't found the 500 yet. Two 425s and one 472, but no 500 yet. YET.

(edit)
It seems that the Eldorado was FWD... I had no idea. Learn something new everyday.

If your still looking

http://www.advancedracing.com/car_parts/engines/cadillacadvancedgmc_500lb.php

But I doubt the $1700.00 in the year 2004 for a fully rebuilt 500 is still a valid price

 

[Corley]

The Caddie 500 was never a transverse mount, it was a fore and aft mount, but still front wheel drive in the Eldo. RWD in all other Caddies. They weight in at between 600 and 650 lbs, whereas the SBC weights in between 525-575 lbs, both depending on what chart you find them on.

Of the big block GM built motors, I've always been told that the Olds 455 and Cad 472-500 are the toughest, but parts are cheaper for the Olds. That's why I've installed 3 of the Olds 455s in different pickups I've owned, and they just make power and torque like mad on the cheap. I did put a 425 Cad (same engine as the 500 after smog downsize) complete with the transaxle into a GMC motorhome (FWD also), where it did a fine job after setting the timing chain back one tooth to de-smog it.

BB Caddies are great engines, really tough as nails, sort of bulky though. Dress up and hop up stuff is expensive for them. Use paint instead if on a budget, and they don't look half bad. Personally, I feel there is no need for that kind of torque n a 'T', and you better have a strong frame if you go that route...

 

[Corley]

PS If you put a Powerglide behind the Caddie, you better have it built super tough! The factory did put them behind a BB chevie at one point though, so they will do it.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Tough as nails and you don't have to rev it up to get power....which means a stock rear ratio, you can probably boil the tires just by mashing on the accelerator! Ha!
Yep, gonna need a 1/4 on frame thickness with the torque.....
Theres plenty of Caddy parts out there....

 

[CrAlt]

The Caddie 500 was never a transverse mount, it was a fore and aft mount, but still front wheel drive in the Eldo. RWD in all other Caddies. They weight in at between 600 and 650 lbs, whereas the SBC weights in between 525-575 lbs, both depending on what chart you find them on.

Of the big block GM built motors, I've always been told that the Olds 455 and Cad 472-500 are the toughest, but parts are cheaper for the Olds. That's why I've installed 3 of the Olds 455s in different pickups I've owned, and they just make power and torque like mad on the cheap. I did put a 425 Cad (same engine as the 500 after smog downsize) complete with the transaxle into a GMC motorhome (FWD also), where it did a fine job after setting the timing chain back one tooth to de-smog it.

BB Caddies are great engines, really tough as nails, sort of bulky though. Dress up and hop up stuff is expensive for them. Use paint instead if on a budget, and they don't look half bad. Personally, I feel there is no need for that kind of torque n a 'T', and you better have a strong frame if you go that route...

Ya the engine points the right way but it has some big funky trans-axle thing. I was thinking about this mainly because I can get it for free or barter and its in my year range for registration. Its only got about 60K on it and I wouldn't be rebuilding it.. MAYBE a cam and the Aluminum intake(for weight) are about the only upgrades I was thinking about. We fired it up and it does telephone pole to telephone pole FWD burnouts like crazy. I won't be needing much more HP then that LOL. Also im wondering about cooling.. I don't want to be adding compression to that problem.



This thing is by far the biggest 2 door car ive ever seen.. Its 18 and 1/2 feet long.

I should be getting my frame from WINTEC next week. I'll ask him if he thinks BB power would be advisable with his frame or not. I didn't even think about that issue. Thanks for bringing it up.

 

[Gerry]

Ya the engine points the right way but it has some big funky trans-axle thing. I was thinking about this mainly because I can get it for free or barter and its in my year range for registration. Its only got about 60K on it and I wouldn't be rebuilding it.. MAYBE a cam and the Aluminum intake(for weight) are about the only upgrades I was thinking about. We fired it up and it does telephone pole to telephone pole FWD burnouts like crazy. I won't be needing much more HP then that LOL. Also im wondering about cooling.. I don't want to be adding compression to that problem.


Cad-I-Lac, Cad-I-Lac; long and dark; shiney and black,
Open your engines let em roar,
Headin down the Hiway like a big old Bucketsor.

Just got to be a class act with a Caddy in it. So what color did you say, Black, was it

Gerry

 

[fordsbyjay]

The Ford 460 is 125 lbs heavier than the 500 Caddy.

Bob

First off we are talking about a 2000 lb car I don't think 125 lbs make a big difference. :thinkn: Now as far as the cadillac motor they are a popular old school hot rod swap so it would be cool non the less (although I am not saying you shouldn't put a Ford in it LOL :thumb: ) The OP was looking for low cost so I suggested another low cost alternative.

 

[Ted Brown]

Frames, strong enough?? Yes if the mounts are designed correctly and welded correctly also... I see a lot of mounts that are too short on weld area, need to go the full side length of the frame, corner to corner or top to bottom, how ever you look at it... Some stop the the brackets in the middle of the frame material, and not at the bend where it is much stronger and will also last much longer... Even the 1 1/2"X3" X .125 wall will be fine with correctly designed brackets... Time will tell all you fellows that have not driven your cars that much, a few Thousand miles is not nearly enough to tell you about stress fatigue between brackets and frames, especially engine and shock mounts...

 

[sstock]

Frames, strong enough?? Yes if the mounts are designed correctly and welded correctly also... I see a lot of mounts that are too short on weld area, need to go the full side length of the frame, corner to corner or top to bottom, how ever you look at it... Some stop the the brackets in the middle of the frame material, and not at the bend where it is much stronger and will also last much longer... Even the 1 1/2"X3" X .125 wall will be fine with correctly designed brackets... Time will tell all you fellows that have not driven your cars that much, a few Thousand miles is not nearly enough to tell you about stress fatigue between brackets and frames, especially engine and shock mounts...

I'm listening Ted as I'm sure many others are too about being too quick to get the paint on the frame. This only makes sense now that you have pointed it out, but who would of thunk it?? I guess when you build a car from scratch it is a different deal than if you just hopped up some detroit iron.

 

[Hotrod46]

you don't have to rev it up to get power....which means a stock rear ratio, you can probably boil the tires just by mashing on the accelerator! Ha!

I know a guy down on the coast that put a mildly hot rodded 500 in a shortened fenderless Model A sedan. He was running 3.50 gears in the rear and had to drop them down to 2.75's. He told me that it had so much torque that it would spin the tires on dry ground without even trying and it was a real handful in the wet, but he also said that he loved it.

Sounds like a fun project!

Mike

 

[deckofficer]

500 cid caddy 595 lbs
sbc 575 lbs
Chevy 454 675 lbs
Ford 289/302 460 lbs
Ford 351 C 550 lbs
Ford 351 W 510 lbs
Ford 429/460 640 lbs
Ford 4.6 SOHC 473 lbs
Olds 455 605 lbs
Olds 215 318 lbs

Bob

 

[Screaming Metal]

Frames, strong enough?? Yes if the mounts are designed correctly and welded correctly also... I see a lot of mounts that are too short on weld area, need to go the full side length of the frame, corner to corner or top to bottom, how ever you look at it... Some stop the the brackets in the middle of the frame material, and not at the bend where it is much stronger and will also last much longer... Even the 1 1/2"X3" X .125 wall will be fine with correctly designed brackets... Time will tell all you fellows that have not driven your cars that much, a few Thousand miles is not nearly enough to tell you about stress fatigue between brackets and frames, especially engine and shock mounts...

Well, Ted said it, so it must be OK.....his word is good enough for me....

 

[Corley]

One last thought on that Caddie 500. The pan on that Eldo engine will have a funny shape, as there is a cutout area to clear the differential in the FWD application. While it's functional, it also quite ugly for a 'T' app. You might want to consider swapping out a pan from a RWD caddie, anything except the Eldo back in that era will be fine, and the pan from a 425, 472, or 500 will fit and look "normal". Not sure about the pickup tube, probably needs to match the pan.

The Caddie has a fully skirted block (extends down below the crankshaft mid point) unlike the SBC, which stops at the crank mid point. This gives the Caddie a lot of support, and the bottom ends rearly ever have problems. They also have a front mounted distributor, which lets you get them close to the firewall. So, they do have some good points. However, they are really long, somthing ot keep in mind... All in all, I'd say if you have it, and you like it, why not use it.

Corley

PS Tex Smith lists weights as:
Cadillac V8 472/500 600 lbs
Buick V8 430/455 600 lbs
Olds V8 330/455 600 lbs
SB Pont V8 350/400 600 lbs
BB Pont V8 455 630 lbs
BB Chevy V8 396/454 635 lbs
SB Chevy V8 265/400 550 lbs
SB Ford V8 260/351 460 lbs
BB Ford V8 332/460 625 lbs
etc... Other sharts vary a LOT...

 

[Screaming Metal]

There's plenty of custom made pans for this motor.....another note-able motor thats often overlooked is the motor put into the 'checker' cabs or 'Yellow' cabs....about 500 cubes....