Fuel Injection

[oino]

Who here has done a EFI on their bucket?
The bung for the O2 sencor. Where in the header would it go?
Would I need one in both headers?

Reason I'm asking is. I messed up one of my headers. I'm going to get it recoated later this summer.
Thought I would have the bung put in and cap it. Then I could upgrade to EFI at a later date.

 

[Screaming Metal]

About 2 weeks ago got thru doing a All Alum. 35o Vette roller motor with TBI in a bucket....looks kinda funky at first, with the air cleaner sticking straight forward.... then kinda started growing on me with the ram tubes curling up and all. We put the bung on the headers just before the first bend on the drivers side, rear cylinder. Put everything on it, started it up, with the laptop connected, had everything roughed in in 15 minutes, took it for a spin, laptop still plugged in, 30 minutes later, running like a charm.
I welded the bung in under the primary tube, as not to be totally obvious, hid as much wiring as I could....used a Painless lockup kit for the converter, they're adjustable thermstat with the cooling fan system, and also they're keyless ignition switch is sweet.

I prefer old school since I'm into classic motors.....but for mileage and performance, EFI is hard to beat!

 

[Golly]

Yep the OEM style can look a bit out of place in a "tradtional " style T, but yes as Screaming Metal says, the driveability , performance and mpg is hard to beat. The aftermarket " 8 stack" style look very cool but I think you have to factor in the cost of not only the EFI unit but also the new fuel pump, additonal fuel return line (having modifications done to the tank if nothing else) mounting the computer and adding the wiring & sensors, andthen some final tuning costs when running, it's still an expensive exercise.

 

[GT63]

Who here has done a EFI on their bucket?
The bung for the O2 sencor. Where in the header would it go?
Would I need one in both headers?

Reason I'm asking is. I messed up one of my headers. I'm going to get it recoated later this summer.
Thought I would have the bung put in and cap it. Then I could upgrade to EFI at a later date.

Here's how I did it. Put it in the passenger side header collector. I'm only using the one O2 sensor because the ECU only supports one. You can run two if the ECU supports two.

 

[Screaming Metal]

The TBI has been out there long enough to stay glued to many old used 350 roller motors in the bone yards, so, if your frugal, most all can be had for fairly inexpensive. That way a person you come up with the all the TPS, injectors, manifold, and if you have a wrecked FireBird or Camero, you can get the computer wiring harness.

There's several places where you can get a stripped down version of the motor harnesses for transplants into other cars, comes with a min. of wires and all. There's several performance kits that comes with a new performance throttlebody, gaskets, a disc to load the stuff onto your laptop for tuning, etc, pretty cheap.
You can even get twin throttle body injectors and system for running on the tunnelrams, Too!

 

[oino]

I'm going to start saving my money for a Fast EZ-EFI kit. Includes everything needed. Also our coater here said they would recoat my header for $120.
Maybe a end of summer/beginning of fall project with just a enough time to show it off and play with it before winter.
We'll see.


Screaming Metal: I like the bone yard idea. But there are a lot of factors in getting one from a yard. One being I wouldn't know what I was doing. Is what I'm looking at good and complete.
I know Fast makes a reto fit kit. But I spoke with Fast and they told me their is a lot you have to do to get them to work.

I think the Fast kit is best for me. I don't even have to change the intake.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Well, The EZ Kit is outstanding, I like it, its complete, even has its own little interface! The MegaSquirt systems are pretty good, but can get complicated. I have a alot of experience in Mechanical fuel injection, so going electronic wasn't too bad.
From my experience of installing these on Really hopped up Motors, The StealthRam and the EZ are my favorites, Accel, then the Megasquirt, then the others.

I've pieced together the origional efi's because some folks are a glutton for punishment and they just had to have it that way. But, it can be done on the cheap, and if your careful, you can get good results.
HOWEVER, EFI's absorb alot of punishment. They're in the heat all the time, they're shaken, vibrated, put up with the crappy fuel.
The EZ kit IS A PLUS! It comes with everything, its a complete kit. Since you have your own interface, theres no laptop to contend with, so you can do it on the fly. Its self learning also!
As fuel continues to go down hill, the ability to adjust on the fly is a definitely a plus....

 

[Screaming Metal]

Let me just add this, The Accel unit is good, though the harness in big and bulky, looks out of place in a exposed motor car....theres harness all over the place!

 

[Screaming Metal]

Heres some info....info is good.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_9812_10_common_efi_mistakes/viewall.html

 

[Screaming Metal]

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0504_standalone_efi_systems/viewall.html

 

[old round fart]

What about the new MSD Atomic unit? That system requires 4 or 5 wires and seems to be priced with the others at about $2500.

 

[Screaming Metal]

What about the new MSD Atomic unit? That system requires 4 or 5 wires and seems to be priced with the others at about $2500.

Well, I didn't want to cloud the water any, I love all things MSD, thats the reason why I didn't mention them.
I've hooked up exactly 4 of these, no problems, and the 5th one is going on my Big Blue Oval Motor....its in-the-box sitting beside the motor on its stand.
Yes, theres alot less wires to contend with, the wires are shorter, better connectors, in my opinion, and as all things MSD, is rugged. Setup seems to be quicker, as these things go. The Electronics layout is nice. I like simplicity, good looks, with quality.

Theres alot of DIY EFI's out there, you gotta read, then decide which one you want. The more plugs you got to hook up and the more sensors, the more that could go wrong. You also have Edelbrock, TEC3, and alot of others that aren't mentioned. You guys must decide which ones are the ones that belong on your cars.

My preferences are EZ, Accel, and MSD, but not necessarily in that order. Don't look past the old Injector co's that are putting out some really good EFI products, too. Look over the whole field and look at your options, and decide accordingly.

Theres alot to be said for the EFI's, but on advantage is you don't have to continuely take the carb apart the change the architecture of the fuel system. Its done by a screen and a keyboard..
And for those living at high altitudes, some of these have atmospheric sensor inputs, so, it adjusts as altitude changes. Alot of them are expandable, so, it can grow with your car. Most can control activation of cooling fans and such.

But just let me say this before I go. These things are voltage sensitive. You have to have good clean grounds. Your charging system has to work correctly. And don't go cutting wires willy-nilly and extending them to get to your components, because you can change the resistance and therefore affect your system.
Hook everything up, out of the way of moving parts, crank it up, and test it. Then lay out your components to make sure your wiring reaches where it needs to go. Those electronic control boxes generate heat, so put it where it can receive cooling air.
If its got cooling fins on it, chances are, its needs some cooling air. And double and triple check your wiring. And these things are sensitive to clean fuel and alot of pressure....do as the instructions say.

 

[old round fart]

Hey Screaming Metal, have you put EFI in a blown motor?

 

[Screaming Metal]

Yes, all the time! Ya know, all the top racers in all the top classes are under Computer engine management. More are going to Fuel injection. Everything is tied into computers now.
When I plug a computer into a car between rounds I look at clutch release time, injection time, timing, heat, ambient temps, clutch to engine RPM slippage. We can even sync the car video to the computer readouts, so as we see things happening, we can see the data on the screen when a car goes up in smoke, etc.
Nascar has been injected about a year. Smallblock Chevys running 500 miles @ 8500 RPM all afternoon in the summer heat @200 MPH, Making 900 horses. Its totally wild!

 

[Screaming Metal]

http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-me...ascar-fuel-injection-replaces-carburetor.html

 

[GT63]

Hey Screaming Metal, have you put EFI in a blown motor?

It's not that hard to put EFI on a blown motor, It's still Air and Fuel. This was my EFI Blown 355 using an Accel DFI V7 ECU. This spring\summer I decided after 10years to tear the T down and fix all the list of things I wish I had done differently. Plus add a '74 Jaguar XJ rear end and build a Dart blocked SBC 406 using the Blown EFI configuration except this time I'm using throttle bodies instead of the bugcatcher. In my opinion the bugcatcher lets in too much air too fast, even after I've modified it to only use the center hole. I'm also planning on switching from the Accel DFI ECU to a Holley ECU. I've found from my research that the Accel unit is highly susceptible to Radio waves especially when using a MSD 6A ignition box. Switching to a digital ignition system and the Holley ECU should just about eliminate the RFI prevalent on Fiberglass bodied cars. I know guy running the Holley Projection unit on a blown 4.6L Cobra Mod motor in a T. It runs great. My plan is to post build photos as I go.

 

[Northstar T]

Build your own. it only took me a year or so.

one thing some overlook is to never install the o-2 with the business end pointing up at any angle. moisture can collect in the sensor when cooling off, which can kill the 0-2 fairly quickly.

Russ

 

[PotvinGuy]

I'm using the EZ on this:

O2 sensor is on driver side pipe, looks just like GT63's (hi Grant!). The EZ learns for a while, then the O2 sensor is just fine tuning. I discovered this when the sensor got unplugged on the highway and the EFI continued to run as if nothing happened. NOTE: FAST has 2 versions of the EZ now. The original and the new one with ignition control and an upgraded handheld.

Very much like this unit. Fired up first crank. A little tweaking to get the IAC in the groove and it idles at 800 warm. Very well mannered, but will go to Kill mode when needed.

 

[Mike]

It's not that hard to put EFI on a blown motor, It's still Air and Fuel.

Absolutely! This is a message we need to tack to the wall of this place; that things only get difficult when we allow them to be difficult. That's a bonus point to Grant.

Hi, Russ! It's good to see you.

I love these last three posts, because there are three, totally unique combinations shown there. I always admire it when people dare to be different, I think that is why I was always drawn to 6-cylinder drag cars. Because they were not the same-old, same-old. When someone can take on the challenge to build something outside the envelope, that always gets my attention.

 

[old round fart]

Thanks guys. GT63, Yours is out of my price range, Northstar T yours is above my skill level! I watched your build ! PovtinGuy do you have any pix of the other side of the blower? I think by the time I buy two carbs I will spend about the same money as EFI. I recently got an original Pete Robinson blower drive and want to use it! I bought the patterns and will be looking at remaking them because they look so cool. I'll get pictures when I get it mocked up.