How Much Horsepower?

[FordTBucketKid11]

I got to thinking the other day and i was looking into some thinges. If i wanted to go with a lot of Horse Power how much will a t bucket frame Handle and would there be anything i would need to stgrenthen it up.. I am just wondering. Thanks..

Steven

 

[btlfed7]

There are alot of factors that could effect how much power a chassis can take.

What is your target HP, and how do you plan to make it(NA/Turbo/SC)?

 

[FordTBucketKid11]

I dont know how much i would like to make. I do want to go with NA. I am not a fan of the other stuff. I like old school.. I am not trying to be dumb about this i am just wondering. The sky is the limit and i just want to know what it can with stand..

 

[tfeverfred]

There are quite a few guys running pretty powerful engines on here. I know BlownT seems to be running about 600HP. A basic frame, with front and rear bracing, seems to handle quite a bit. Now, if you're racing or tend to have a heavy foot, I'd think extra bracing would be needed.

An idea of what you plan on running, will yield more info.

 

[FordTBucketKid11]

I am not looking to do extreme power. I would like about 400 Hp out of a Ford 302. Any idea how to get there out of that. And yes i have a heavey heavy foot.... I am also looking for a ford 9 inch rear to as well for this car. I am only in the planning stages but trying to get as much info as possiable.

 

[ellis8500]

Just remember, HP gets you speed, torque gets you acceleration. You might have enough HP, about 600 or so, to go 200 MPH. But, these cars are not designed for that kind of speed. High torque will get you great acceleration. But, these cars are very light and anything above about 250 ft-lbs will just make your tires smoke more. With a near stock, 300 HP, 300 ft-lb engine, you can get less than 4 sec. 0-60 times and near 150 MPH. Engineering calculations indicate about 55-60 HP for 100 MPH. So, from a performance standpoint, a stock engine is really all these light cars need for maximum, safe performance. The high HP, blowers, near race engines are all personal preferences. The fact is, unless you are willing to take some very big risks, you will not ever use more than about 100 HP. If you have a sturdy frame, 2x3x 3/16 tube, you should be fine.

 

[ellis8500]

I too have a Ford 302 and was asking that same question a while back. In order to get 400 HP you will need higher flow, after-market heads, intake, camshaft and different pistons [for the valve lift]. You can find articles on the net if you search for "400 HP Ford 302" They tell you exactly how to do it. You might be better off just doing a stoker job on it where you can take it to 327 or 347 Cubes. You'll get more low-end torque and higher HP. Compare the costs and see which is the better deal.

 

[ellis8500]

For rear end, a Ford 8.8 from an Explorer will handle a 400 HP engine. Those rear ends have the heavy duty axles. You can get one with disc brakes and limited slip; 3.55, 3.73 or 4.10 for a few hundred bucks. All good and ready to go. You will have to remove the existing brackets and add your own shock/radius rod brackets. Spirit Cars makes a really nice bracket just for that.

 

[FordTBucketKid11]

Mr. Bill,

Thank You for that In sight. That is excatly what i was looking for. I dont know very much on how to get a lot of horse power and which is why i read a lot of the tech stuff. But i was wondering cause i have seen some tubuckets with these engine that sound amazing and look fast as hell to and i was wondering how they got away with it being that it looks like they have a lot of HP.

 

[RPM]

For rear end, a Ford 8.8 from an Explorer will handle a 400 HP engine. Those rear ends have the heavy duty axles. You can get one with disc brakes and limited slip; 3.55, 3.73 or 4.10 for a few hundred bucks. All good and ready to go. You will have to remove the existing brackets and add your own shock/radius rod brackets. Spirit Cars makes a really nice bracket just for that.

Be careful using that Explorer rear end in a real short wheelbase car. The 8.8 that we have had, have the pinion offset several inches. A short wheelbase can make for a real short driveshaft, then with the offset in the pinion the driveshaft is at a very sever side angle. So bad that you could not get the driveshaft in. I would hate to see someone do all that work and put all those brackets on the rear, mock it all up and maybe painted. Then you find out it won't work. A rear out of an S-10 works fine and will handle 400hp in a light weight T. The pinion is very close to center on the S-10.

 

[Youngster]

One of my T's was powered by a 90hp ChevyII 4 cyl. with a '39 ford trans aand a 4.11 '40 Ford rear end. It weighed in at 1425#. Let me tell ya, that lil' rocket went like stink! I agree with Mr. Bill, a stock motor will scare the pants off ya in one of these cars. I use 1 1/2" x 3" 11ga. tube for my frames. On of them is running a 392 hemi with lots of balls, no problem and the chassis is very simular to the one offered in my chassis plans.

Ron

 

[FordTBucketKid11]

Alright.. Thankes Guys. I am wanting to have some fun with the 302 Engine i have and i have been looking for ideas to do to this but again i dont know much and i wont claim to know much either. I am just looking for some advice on what i should do engine wise and rear end wise know. Alson something that has been bothering me is What kind of drive shaft should i got with.. and should i move this thread to engines..

 

[PotvinGuy]

The frame is not likely to be the limiting factor. Suspension, tires, brakes, rear end, tranny and torque converter are the things you may have to upgrade. Common suspensions (thin radius rods) could bend or even snap under high loads. If you add more power, you might need a higher stall converter. The others are pretty obvious; the entire drivetrain needs to handle the new power. FYI, I run a crate SBC, sometimes with just a carb, sometimes adding a B&M 250 blower, and swap in a 6-71 blower and EFI when I get bored. The carb alone is plenty, adding the B&M blower gives a real nice kick, and the 6-71 scares the crap out of me. And I love it all.

 

[FordTBucketKid11]

I am glad i Joined this Forum. Lots of good info.. Does anyone what i should do when i get a used engine? Should i tear it down and clean?

 

[Mr T Bucket]

I have run across this video before. [media]

That engine will run you around $8200 turn key, but you can save a buck or two if you do it yourself AND if you know what you're doing. I am only weeks away from completing my SBF build and will have around $3800 in it when I'm done. It's a mild 302 bored and stroked to 331. Nothing too fancy or complicated or expensive, but it should be plenty-o-fun. One of the options I had thought about was buying a used vehicle with the particular engine/transmission combo that I was wanting, so that I could hear it run, drive it, and have it complete. That way, I could pull the drivetrain and throw it in my T frame and get it running quickly, then tear it down later for a rebuild, paint, chrome, whatever. On the other hand, this way, starting with just some old engine, I have been able to basically start from scratch and build the engine that I wanted, and hopefully, not have to tear into it at some date down the road. You don't need a 425 hp SBF, but that's what makes this country so great. If you want chocolate ice cream instead of vanilla, you can have it if you can afford it.

 

[tfeverfred]

I got my engine from the salvage yard. I did a compression check on it and it was good to go. I get lucky like that sometimes. A friend helped me go through it. Checked the heads, etc. I ran the factory Quardrajet for a while and only swiched to an Edelbrock 600cfm for cosmetics. Other than that, she's your basic 305 SBC. I figure I'm making about 200-225 HP. Plenty for this lil ole T. If you can get one and hear it run, you'll be in great shape.

 

[FordTBucketKid11]

I dont think i will be going that expensive anytime soon. I am going to be buying a 302 Carbed Motor. A friend of mine has one for 200.00 and i will be buying that one. I will be stirpping it down checking out everything and doing what i would like to do. Maybe a bigger carb and intake but that might be it for know. I would like a storker motor one day and we will see from there. Guys i really apperciate all of the insight..

 

[fordsbyjay]

#1. The frame will be fine unless you put some decent suspension under the rearend and put some slicks on it. You will find "traction" issues long before you will have to worry about the frame twisting.

#2. Cheapest way to make 400 hspr 302 is to start with a 5.0l HO (Mustang, T-bird, Lincoln etc). The pre 89 units come with forged pistons (so you want an 87-89 preferably) The 86 model had screwy pistons so stay away from them. Bolt on a set of AFR 185's heads, put in a comp Extreme hydraulic roller in it (either the 274 or 282). You will probably have to notch the pistons but it is not that big of a deal. Bolt on a victor jr or a Performer RPM air gap, 650 Holley and go to town.

Motors can be had for $200-500 complete. Spend less then $3k for new parts or save $$$$ and look for used parts. Away you go...... This was a magazine motor from years back and it made 450 hspr. I think once you figure in the "reality" factor it is still a solid 400+ hspr. Btw, I have this combo in my 56 Mainline and it has traction issues at 3200 lbs, it will be great in a 1800# bucket. :angel:

#3. Rearend: The driveshafts in these cars are crazy short. I would definitely take into consideration what Ron had to say about using a stock Explorer rearend. I do believe the Mustang 8.8's have a centered pinion. You could also use an Explorer rear end and shorten the long side so they are the same length. This would allow you to use two factory short axles. (just a thought anyways).

I am not sure about your budget but that is the best way to get it done, IMHO.

 

[ellis8500]

I did forget about the off-center pinion on the Ford 8.8. I am using one in a 27T with a 29" driveshaft so it isn't a problem. Spirit Cars uses S10 axles on their buckets so that would be a good choice.

 

[FordTBucketKid11]

Ok. So after a long night of thinking i have came up with This. I am going to buy the engine from a friend of mine for 200 dollers.. its a 302. I am going to strip it down clean it all up and then go from there. I will take everything apart and try to find some used stuff that has been barely used and work with that. I think for right know i will be trying to find a intake and bigger carb for it.. then go internalely. All this info has made me taken a step back and to think about everything.. I know there is a lot to learn and i might as well start with the engine.. I need to learn how to build it from ground to a complete motor..