Steering/ suspension Ideas?

[PeteT]

I'm starting to get a few bits together and thought I'd try a quick mock up.
Wondered if there were any comments? Not sure if it can be done so it looks neat.

I want to try and put the grill/rad in front of the axle so I can keep the wheelbase short. Body will be channeled so will sit lower, grill to line up with body. Also got a model A grill, not sure which one I prefer yet.

Like so...

Would like to have transverse spring but everything seems to hit and not sure where the perch would go.

Thought about a quarter elliptical like Possies sell. Has anyone used these?

Something like this but with the front of the spring shackle jointed to the axle.

Steering link would clear but need to get a panhard rod in there somewhere!

I've not got my engine yet so not sure how low that is going to sit and where I can put the crossmember. I don't want a big gap between the engine and rad!

I was going to try and use cross steering (I've got a vega box) but not sure where the box and link will go. Looks like it might be easier with side steer.

Shocks have got to go somewhere as well!

I find it hard to design without the parts in front of me but it's knowing which parts to get in the first place... Chicken and egg I think.

Probably all been done before but it's providing me with a challenge.

Any comments?

Thanks

Pete

 

[old round fart]

You are doing it like I think it should be done. Get the look, then figure out how to make everything clear. Try spring over axle with repop model A crossmember, then cross steer will clear the spring. A Posie reversed eye low rider spring will make you low enough to be cool. I want to use the Unisteer rack and pinion unit on my car but if you already have the Vega box that may save money. Good luck with your project, and keep the progress pix coming!

 

[Youngster]

That;s an impressive pile of parts you have there. Looks like a great start.

ORF is right. There is just too much stuff to go between the shell and the engine with the spring behind the axle. A repo Model A front xmbr would make things so much easier. However, adding the necessary bracket to the front axle you already have would look like an after thought. So that leaves the quarter elliptics. It would be a simple mater to add mounts to the axle. This would move the axle closer to the front xmbr, closing the gap up there. You could mount them under the frame rail as you have them set up in the picture or along side the rail. Either way, you will need to drop the tie rod for spring clearance. A pair of dropped spindle arms from Chassis Eng. would work well here. JMO

Ron

 

[VegasBruce]

That will be a sweet ride. Like O.R.F. said use the A crossmember that will keep everything nice and tight. Then you can also z the frame to get the car lower if you want.

 

[PeteT]

Thanks for your thoughts guys....

I can't see how you can get it low with a spring over axle, I must be missing something. Doesn't the crossmember end up where the rad should be?

I'll do a bit of searching on model A's and see how it's done, I hadn't considered it before.

I can always change the bits if there are no good, this is a dream build for me and it's got to be right... It's just a bit of a wait if I need anything, it took 4 months to get the axle from the States to the UK. I do envy you with the choice of parts and the cheap prices!


Thanks again.

Pete

 

[Youngster]

The Model A xmbr we're talking about isn't really a replacement one for the A. It's probably an inch or so lower. It's so low that most times the frame rail has to be knoched for spring clearance.

Ron

 

[donsrods]

For the life of me, I can't get pictures to come up on this forum. :sad::sad: My Son is doing exactly what you are describing and has his pretty figured out. I would love to show you some detailed pictures, but I just spent 1/2 hour trying to get them to post here and can't.

Send me a PM with your email address and I'll get them to you that way. It is a very workable system you are proposing and looks clean too.

Don

 

[PeteT]

Here's the pictures of Don's sons car. Excellent work, very neat, that's going to be one nice motor when it's done.

It's exactly the look I'm after... Just a few questions.

What rad are you goning to use? I'm worried about the height between the front crossmember and the grill shell, my shell has been chopped 5" so was assuming I won't have room for a crossmember below it. Is that a stock height grill shell?

What size wheels are they? I've mocked mine up assuming wheels are 15" (24" tyre size)

Thanks Don for sending the photos, they have been a great help.

 

[VegasBruce]

Don that is a cool build, lots of unique features.

 

[Youngster]

Nicely done. I take it those bat wings are scratch built? This rendition of his A is much cooler than the firstone was. What does your son do for a living? Don't tell me he sits behind a desk, I won't beleive it.

Ron

 

[LumenAl]

... Thought about a quarter elliptical like Possies sell. Has anyone used these? Any comments?

Thanks

Pete

Well Pete,

Looks like Kolla T AKA Ex-Junk has some iteas for ya... He emailed me the pictures so I could post them for ya... So here ya go...

I do feel that it is important to help the fellow builders in anyway that I can so that they can build a safe, well engineered car. And as they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words." And now for my "thousand words."

I am using a 4" dropped tube axle with '54 Chevy spindles that has '74 Nova calipers and rotors. The springs came out of my '37 Chevy as did the axle and brake set up when I up dated to a Mustang II front suspension. (As a matter of fact, that is how my whole car came about in the first place. As I was removing all these perfectly good parts from my '37 for the update, I decided to build a car from these "junk" parts. Hence the car's name, EX JUNK.) I cut the front semi elliptic springs in half to create the quarter elliptic springs that are shown. The steering box is out of a "junked" Vega.

I do hope that this will help others in their build ideas. I am more than willing to give all the help and pictures that I can.

Thank you,
Jim

And now for the great pictures...

My job here is done! :beer: Thanks Jim for sharing!

 

[Youngster]

That's impressive EX_JUNK!! Love pictures like that. You can be sure I'll study them.

Ron

PS, I see Gary Moore's T made The new issue of Rod & Kulture. Great layout!

 

[PeteT]

LumenAl and Ex-Junk thanks for the pictures gives me some more ideas to think about, I can see that working on my car. Looks like a really nice engineered car and superbly finished. What does it ride like?


I've had a playing again... Tried mocking it up as per Don's and it looks like it could work. I think I may have the engine too high, I've allowed 8" ground clearance which is probably too much.

Few things worry me a bit. The crankshaft pulley hitting the steering link. Has anyone got any photos of a SBC straight on and side on. All the ones I can find are at angles and I can't really see what's going on.

I guess the steering has got to be side steer with this set up, I can't see where a cross steering link would go.

I've got about 18" for a rad I guess I have to get one custom made for this ?

 

[VegasBruce]

Ex Junk, Cool picsI like your ride.:beer:

 

[VegasBruce]

I've had a playing again... Tried mocking it up as per Don's and it looks like it could work. I think I may have the engine too high, I've allowed 8" ground clearance which is probably too much.

Few things worry me a bit. The crankshaft pulley hitting the steering link. Has anyone got any photos of a SBC straight on and side on. All the ones I can find are at angles and I can't really see what's going on.

I guess the steering has got to be side steer with this set up, I can't see where a cross steering link would go.

I'd drop the engine down to about 4" of ground clearance. That will still be above the scrub line. Then use a short water pump to keep the crankshaft pulley in nice and tight.

 

[donsrods]

Thanks guys and thanks Pete for doing the posting I couldn't. The batwings are Pete and Jakes items, and Dan does sit behind a desk for part of the day. He is a property manager by day and is a sax player by night. He now limits himself to about one or two nights a week so he has some life, but his Brother (who is also a property manager) plays in a band 6 nights a week. Dan and I aren't sure how he does it, but he likes the money. :beer:

Pete, the stock '32 radiator is 28 inches tall. The one in my Son Dons T is only 24 tall because the shell is chopped 4 inches. Dan has a crossmember under his, and his shell is chopped 4.5 inches, so his radiator can only be 21.5 tall. He has been talking to Walker Radiators and they refuse to make one that small for a big block, saying it won't work. I got the same story from them 20 years ago when I built my '27. Mine is chopped 8.5 inches, so I had to go to the Brassworks and have a thick one built. It cooled fine.

Dan is going to probably go to PRC, who built mine for my T and who also built Dans previous radiator when he was thinking of using a Model A grille shell. PRC are great to work with, and I can't get my T up to temperature because the aluminum radiator I got from them is so efficient. Going down the road it registers 150. He wanted copper so it would be black and go better with the old time look he is after, but Walker is being their usual dumb self about it. I guess they have more business than they can handle. :sad:

Don

 

[donsrods]

Pete, just looked at your new picture. Engine height isn't bad, but if you wanted it could come down. My pan is 5 inches off the deck and clears fine.

One thing you might want to look at is the radiator to block clearance, that looks tight to me. When you put a radiator in there, plus shroud, it takes up a little bit of room. I mocked mine up with a long style pump and then went ooooops, when I got it all together. I had to put a short pump on it and even at that it is tight.

I can't see your firewall, but I would go as far back as the distributor will allow.

Don

 

[PeteT]

Thanks for your help everyone I think I know where I'm going now. I'm not going to make any final decisions until I get an engine sorted out and see how that looks when I mock it up.


I'll try to keep the pictures coming as I progress.

 

[LRS30]

Here's the pictures of Don's sons car. Excellent work, very neat, that's going to be one nice motor when it's done.

It's exactly the look I'm after... Just a few questions.

What rad are you goning to use? I'm worried about the height between the front crossmember and the grill shell, my shell has been chopped 5" so was assuming I won't have room for a crossmember below it. Is that a stock height grill shell?

What size wheels are they? I've mocked mine up assuming wheels are 15" (24" tyre size)

Thanks Don for sending the photos, they have been a great help.

How much clearance do you have under the frame horns? I really dig this set-up..

 

[T-Buckeye]

Since my knowledge of front ends is very minimal, and I really like this style of front end in comparison to the suicide front end, I have to ask on it.
I am guessing the way Donsrods son set up his front end, is a model A style. I found the model A xmember. The front of my chassis is 22 1/2" inside rail to inside of rail. The xmember is 26 1/2", is there any issues on cutting it down to fit?
I could probably guess on the components used for the front end(i.e. axle,bat wings and four bars). But heck with all the knowledge here, why should I. If anybody can give me some info on the components used to achieve the A style front end, I would greatly appreciate it.