Switching from Brass, 4 core to Aluminum Rad ?? core

[Daimyo68]

First some info:
1923 T-Bucket Roadster
Chevy 350, .030 over
Mild Cam
Timing at 10btdc
4 core Brass radiator (core dimensions of 19.5w X 14.5h X 4.25d)
T400 trans with separate trans cooler

Engine always ran warm at 220-230f

I'm going to be removing the current Brass Radiator (4 core), and replacing it with an Aluminum Radiator and I would like some opinions on going 3 core, or 4 core.

The brass radiator has leaks, some of which I was able to repair myself, but after 18+ years of service its time to put a new one in, so I decided to go Aluminum.

I would also like to install a 16" electric fan and remove the flex fan. The issue I am facing here is space. As it sits right now, I have 2.5 inches between the cores and the water pump pulley. I can move the rad about an inch forward if needed (with some work making mounts, relocating brake lines, etc, which is no problem to do), but would prefer not to if I can. I may get some added room by using a 3 row instead of the 4 row.

So I have these questions
1 - 3 row vs 4 row? I would rather have more cooling capacity, but the 4 row will mean more work for an electric fan. Again, not a huge issue, but would rather avoid the extra work/fabrication if possible.

2. Width dimensions.... My mounting brackets have a total width of 24 inches, with core width being 20 inches. Almost all of the radiators I'm seeing are 22.5 inches total width, with a core of 18.5 inches wide. Shouldn't be an issue, but I'm assuming something changed over the years? I should be fine, since most of the aluminum rads have taller dimensions. I'd be picking up surface area actually if going with a 4 row.

Looking forward to responses,
Thanks

 

[2old2fast]

A 4 row may not cool better , more obstruction for the air to pass through , I have a 2 row w/3/4" oval tubes , w/ a .060 over 388 I have never seen over 175 cruiseing , at stop lights my 16" fan takes it down to 185 from 200 w/ease , make sure you use a shroud !!

 

[Indycars]

I had a very similar problem as yours, with very little distance from the radiator to
the water pump pulley. After lots of searching I found a Flexalite 16" (number 118)
that was very short. They were nice enough to send me their engineering drawings
so I can determine if it would fit.

16-inch LoBoy Electric Fan (puller)


Go to the bottom and download the PDF if you really need to look at the drawing,
it will be much clearer.

As you can see below I had to make the water pump pulley go under the fan motor,
with only 3/8 inch vertical clearance.





I had some brackets that I made and had the radiator shop weld them on. Do not use
those mounts that come with the radiator and extend thru the fins, they rub and create
leaks.






I agree with 2old2fast, I don't think you need a 4 pass radiator, a 3 pass should be
more than enough. I had the core replaced by the radiator shop after 30 years. I went
with a 3 pass core that has multiple louvers on every fin increasing the surface area,
thus increased cooling. Could very be over kill in your situation, I'm running more
HP than you. The fan cycles on/off when I'm sitting still in 90°F or higher.



I always seem to go for over kill, but that's just me.

 

[Daimyo68]

Wow! Fast and informative responses. I found the right place to ask.

As you mentioned IndyCars, I tend to go overkill also. I went with the Brass 4 row radiator initially, because it looked very nice, matched the carb stacks and the firewall. (I've since gone to a single holley. The old Carter carbs started breaking down internally from the ethanol). Anyways, overkill may have been the issue from the get-go, since I'm running a mechanical fan without a shroud. I can feel air being pulled through, but I'm sure it could be better.

So I'm now thinking a 2 row may be fine, with a 16" electric fan.

The radiator/s I'm looking at are made by Champion Radiators. The kicker is their 60 day guarantee that if the radiator does not cool the engine, I can exchange it for another (go to a 3 core) or a full refund. It also has a lifetime warranty.

Another thing I do like, are the side tabs, which I can use to mount the fan (fabricating brackets obviously). This will keep the fan off the fins, and I will be able to get the fan face within 1/8" from the core.

 

[Indycars]

Sounds like a good plan to me! Can't go wrong with the 60 day guarantee.

 

[Gerry]

18 years on a brass rad. Have you thought of having it checked out by a rad shop for flow through it? Could be its just clagged up with crap and needs a pro cleaning and repair.....or a possible recore. Hate to see a Brass rad disappear from a T. Just a thought.

 

[Indycars]

Don't forget to consider the alternator output, you may need to upgrade to carry the
fan at idle.

You will notice down at very low rpm, the 10si put out considerably less than the
CS-144. Exactly when you need the most to power the fan. That's an example, there
are several different alternator models to chose from.

Auto Repair Shop Owner Programs & Benefits| ACDelco TechConnect

Note: The charts below are referring to the alternator rpm, so you need to compare
the pulley sizes on the crankshaft to the alternator pulley, then multiple that times
the engine rpm. That will give you the alternator rpm.





Take the numbers below with a grain of salt, they vary considerably. The Flexalite
fan above draws 30 amps at full speed. But it does show how many different loads
a car can have.

 

[Daimyo68]

18 years on a brass rad. Have you thought of having it checked out by a rad shop for flow through it? Could be its just clagged up with crap and needs a pro cleaning and repair.....or a possible recore. Hate to see a Brass rad disappear from a T. Just a thought.

I will be keeping the old brass rad, and maybe at some point, have it repaired, or give it to my brother as he is thinking about a t bucker now.

Indycars - Im looking at a few fas now since i have now have extra space. There's several 16 inch to choose from, both straight blade and curved. Im going to be doing some research tonight.

I will be ordering the radiator tonight also, along with some other things the car is in need of. I've been slowly going ober the car, finding issues here and there. 2 biggest are the cooling system, and front crossmember (the frame is cracking around the weld where it is attatched to the frame. I need to install gussets).

I'll be pulling the motor out tomorrow evening after I close the shop, to put a new oil pan gasket on (one piece Felpro), flush the coolant passages, etc.

 

[PotvinGuy]

1) you might look at having a custom rad made. Get the dimensions and fittings you want.
2) common cause of overheating is too little timing. My crate SBC runs 20 initial, 15 vacuum and 15 mechanical and purrs at any temp I set on the fan controller.

 

[Daimyo68]

Sorry I haven't followed up with this, been busy working on cars during the day, and then this in the evenings a couple times a week. The frame is where I have spent most of my time, but that's another thread I'll start in the correct forums. I reassembled the front end so that I could drive it to confirm no over temp conditions and it seems to be fine.

Anyways, purchased the 2 core aluminum rad from Champion Cooling, a 16" electric fan by Flexalite, the needed Fan switch, etc., built a custom fan bracket for the fan and overflow. Engine runs about approx 200f now. Fan kicks on at 200, turn off at 180. I am getting an air pocket though on initial warm-up, and believe the new stat is hanging up, so I'm going to buy a high flow 180 for it. I start the car, it runs up to temp but I shut it off when it starts pushing 220, and the stat eventually opens up, and it's fine after that.

I did find that the electric temp gauge is about 5-7 degrees higher than a mechanical gauge (temporarily installed to compare), will switch that out also.

I would post pics but cant yet... I will once I can

 

[Daimyo68]

Last post then images

 

[Daimyo68]

 

[Daimyo68]

 

[Indycars]

Very NICE Looking !

 

[fletcherson]

Wow! Fast and informative responses. I found the right place to ask.

As you mentioned IndyCars, I tend to go overkill also. I went with the Brass 4 row radiator initially, because it looked very nice, matched the carb stacks and the firewall. (I've since gone to a single holley. The old Carter carbs started breaking down internally from the ethanol). Anyways, overkill may have been the issue from the get-go, since I'm running a mechanical fan without a shroud. I can feel air being pulled through, but I'm sure it could be better.

So I'm now thinking a 2 row may be fine, with a 16" electric fan.

The radiator/s I'm looking at are made by Champion Radiators. The kicker is their 60 day guarantee that if the radiator does not cool the engine, I can exchange it for another (go to a 3 core) or a full refund. It also has a lifetime warranty.

Another thing I do like, are the side tabs, which I can use to mount the fan (fabricating brackets obviously). This will keep the fan off the fins, and I will be able to get the fan face within 1/8" from the core.

FYI, I have had issues with ethanol and carbs... there's a on line place called mikes carbs that sells pieces and parts, ethanol proof too.