Vega box location

[fletcherson]

First, I am sorry to hear about Mike. May he rest in peace! I have been away for a while, just rediscovered the site. I tried to access it before and it seemed to be gone. I am getting back to the T after being dry docked for a while.
I have a vega box with a RPM under frame bracket and am trying to decide the best location. It is a traditional push, pull steer. The happy spot seems to be right at the oil filter spot on a bbc, just ahead of the bell housing (standard) and seems to clear without too much modification. Issue is the hairpin mount occupies the same spot. I can devise a workaround, but this is the first time I have done this particular mod. Any wisdom or pics? I prefer not to do it twice if possible. Also, I plan on using a telescoping, tilt column from a caddi and it will require shortening. Any tips on which joints to use? Weld on, etc? I do not have a machine shop at my immediate disposal, so resplining is out. I could cut a section out and weld the shaft to retain the spline, etc...

 

[RPM]

We have that mount with a 5/8 hole in it to use as a radius rod mount,

 

[fletcherson]

I think I can make do with the mount you sold me, I can drill it or weld a nut to it or even laminate it with the existing radius arm bracket, which is what it is clamped to for mock up. I'm just trying to get my head back into this project. I have a lot of stuff in that area with clutch linkage, etc...may change that as well. I was going to stretch it, which is why I set it aside. I was either going to buy one of your stretched bodies or add to mine, but the way the chassis is set up, everything is tied to the cross member, the rear end lift bars, clutch, brake petals, etc and I really don't want to rebuild the entire car. I will just make the best I can with what I have. If it don't suit me, I will pass it on and build something else. I think by changing the steering from mid cab to cowl and redesigning the petals and shifter, I can make it driveable. It's just very tight for me, I'm 6', 230, especially with the clutch and shifter, but I like standard shift...

 

[fletcherson]

• Ok, I spent most of the day in the shop, finally. I have tweeked and moved stuff until I think I have squeezed every fraction of an inch out of my little bobtail t. I have moved the body back and up, as it was deeply channeled, so I brought it up to just even with the bottom of the frame, and back to just behind the bell housing bolts, giving me about an inch between the fire wall and distributor, and 1-1/2" between the body and the shock mounts. I moved the seat every which way and ended up with it stuffed inside the back of the body, tight against the inside of the roll at the top. I don't know how much better a seat could actually fit. That Chrysler mini van seat, at 40", is perfect. I was able to get it about 11-1\2" off the floor to the top of the seat, and have 36" between the front of the seat back and the dash. Then the gear box: I moved it several times and ended up pushing it as far forward as possible without having interference with the radius arm mounting bolt. I thought I could retain the bolt on mounting plate, but there just isn't enough room between it and the pitman arm, so I will drill the steering box mount and mount the radius arm to it. I then ended up mocking the column about 6" shorter than stock to get it to a compromise between comfort and looks. The tilt and telescope features, as much of a hassle as they are to work with at this stage, make it much more doable as far as making it easier to enter and exit, then comfortable to drive. Still need to move the pedals, but it looks like I will be able to push them forward about 2", that will make it almost comfortable for me. The gear shifter mod I came up with seems like it will be just about right, but I am going to wait until everything else is set before I cut and weld it up as I may need to angle it forward a bit, but it is going to give me plenty of leg room, side to side, and is just right as far as the seat height. I need to double check to make sure exactly what the shifter application is before cutting on it, but if it isn't something very special, it's a goner. I think I screwed up by ordering the 14" steering wheel, it is tighter than I prefer as far as my left leg verses the steering wheel. The clutch pedal is the issue there, but it has to be. I had a 12" wheel and tried it, better. I am thinking a 10" would be even better ergonomically, but am unsure about torque. Is anyone running a 10" or smaller steering wheel with a vega box in a traditional push, pull configuration? If so, how does it steer?

 

[2old2fast]

IMO what's killing your seating position is ....your seat. The back of the seat is probably 6" forward from the back of the tub , in comparison , mine's 2" from the back , the other is seat height , where my butt sits is 3" off the floor. Having the bottom of the body even w/the bottom of the frame is the norm -3" frame=3" channel..angle of steering column is critcal to leg room/clearence. AFA those bolted frame mounts , do they have sleeves welded in the frame rails? If not , they won't be secure...12" wheel should be O.K...
dave

 

[fletcherson]

Actually, the seat is tucked back in the tub pretty tight, there is maybe inch or so I may be able to gain if I modify the seat back at the top of the tub, which I may do, but not much, there is the thickness of it, maybe 4"' but it is better than the old insert that came in the car, about the same thickness, but the current seat gives more side room, so it doesn't crowd me towards the shifter. I did try putting the seat down lower, but I do not have enough length in the cab to work the pedals, even if they were at the fire wall, and I don't have room for that due to the narrowing of the tub on the clutch side. I would have to have a severe bend in my knees. I only have it about 4"-5" off of the floor, so the top of the seat back is just under the tub roll, which allows my thighs to be more level when clutching, otherwise there is interference with the steering wheel unless its way up, which I don't want. I don't think I could get much more out of it without eliminating padding, or stretching it. The seat is actually sitting on the kick up in the rear, and a pedis tool on the front. That allows it to go back as far into the tub as it will squeeze. If it were an auto shift, there wouldn't be such an issue. There are inserts in the frame where I have had it apart and I plan on adding them if I find any missing. Thanks for the tip! You are right about steering position. I was able to get the column base forwards enough so it doesn't interfere with pedal travel, but it is going to be tight on the clutch side where the tub tapers in. I thought about using a double u-joint to get a little more room, but there just isn't room with the bellhousing and clutch arm, mainly the bellhousing. I could cut it or switch it, but the steering wheel is positioned exactly in line with the center of the driver side of the seat, so I think it is just a trade off. If I don't wear boots, it should be ok, lol. I will post some pics once I get a little further along past the sitting on various blocks and spacer mock up phase.

 

[HenrysT]

How about using a hand clutch like some jockey shifts on motorcycles? It would have to be hyd. to push a car clutch in.

 

[fletcherson]

Don't think I havent thought about it. I would like a push button clutch, either on the wheel or shift knob, sort of like a tuner shift actuater. That would make it much more comfortable, I have it now to where the only real cumbersome issue is when I have to use the clutch, everything else feels good. If I wasn't so stubborn about retaining the manual trans, it would be good. But then it would be easy... I never take the easy way out. Lol

 

[2old2fast]

Real hot rods have 3 pedals !!!
dave

 

[choppedtop]

Cowl steering would add lots of pedal room. Went thru the same problem with my roadster with 5 speed. With the use of bell cranks,I got everything working fine. Still was crowded for pedals, but functional. BTW, the roadster is 3/4 scale, so floor space is about the same as a bucket, maybe less.
Lee

 

[fletcherson]

I thought about doing cowl steering. The big catch is I bought this thing because it was built back in one of my fonder times and I want to retain as much of it as I can. It's a big trade off! I was able to configure everything to where I am using most of the space. Did you hang your pedals or put them under floor? I have it worked out, well mocked up, to where it is driveable. The tilt column will allow me to move the wheel up a bit when I get serious about going through the gears, and back down for cruising, not too bad. It's just real tight on the clutch side, I was going to move the column over an inch or so, but I don't have it with the current bell housing, and it would put the steering wheel off center in relation to the drivers seat, but I don't think it would be that noticeable to anyone but me... I may take some measurements as I have several Chevy bells on the shelf. If a simple bellhousing change allow me to use a double u joint and free up an inch or so between the column and the side of the body, I can move the pedals to where I am using all of the space, and it will be better, probably as good as it will ever be, without stretching it. I quit working on it last year because I had decided to do just that, but when I got serious about doing it and started measuring and figuring, there were too many things that require changing, effectively losing the flavor of the car. It is what it is... I just want to be able to enjoy driving it so it won't just sit in the garage. Lol.

 

[fletcherson]

Dave, you said your seat is down and back in the tub. I agree that there is a little room there in the curve of the tub, and I wanted to use bomber style buckets as I thought they would tuck back in there, but with having to add the shifter mod to make it driveable, it moves the shifter over to where it would be in front of the passenger seat, basically on the right side of the trans, and I thought it would look odd and be cumbersome for a passenger. What kind of seat are you using?
Also: anyone know of a source for 9 bolt hub steering wheels that are smaller in diameter? The only ones I can find on line are for marine use, and the smallest is 12", and not many choices as far as style. I have to use the 9 bolt hub to retain the telescoping feature, and it is pretty important to me.

 

[Bowtie T]

Maybe you could fabricate some kind of adapter?

 

[2old2fast]

After I put in wood in the body I used 1" sq. steel tubing bent to conform to the body to add strengh. Over that I kerf cut 1/4" luan ply to conform to the inner structure & glassed it so it became a "liner" that could be removed & hold it's shape. The "seat back/side panels [liner] was covered w/1" foam & upholstery..net thickness [structure +liner+ foam & upholstery = 1 3/4". The seat sits on tapered risers [0" back - 4" front] & is 3/4" ply w/cutouts w/furniture webbing covered w/3" foam & upholstery . Hope this is an adequate description..
dave
Look for "keeper's inteior build on here , somewhat similar to what I did other than my liner is easily removable...

 

[2old2fast]

I used a hurst shifter that had the bolt on arm , I cut the bolt on ear off the shifter & offset it about 4" to the right which gave me enough room & kept it out of the passengers way..
dave
Also , made a new shifter out of 3/8 SS plate to angle the handle forward to clear the seat..

 

[fletcherson]

Sounds like you fought the same battle. I thought about using a shifter with bolt on handle and using a console shifter adapter with the offset like you described. I keep that kind of stuff, and when I went digging I found the one I pictured, and it has the right offset, and it bolts to the stem but different than a hurst, so I can do my mod, then be able to remove the handle to install floor, etc, and for future service. I was disappointed that the hurst shifter in the car had the handle welded, no stick change possible. I have a couple old comp + and super shifters, but they fit my muncie trans, and I don't want to use them. My original seat was basically just foam and vinyl, they used the tub as the seat back. It looked good and was comfortable, but it wrapped around the sides and really cramped up the cockpit it reference to the shifter. I would be willing to bet that the placement of the controls were likely why the car didn't get driven much. Bad for the original owner, but good for me.... As long as I get it figured out! Your description of the seat was good! Thanks!

 

[fletcherson]

Maybe you could fabricate some kind of adapter?

I thought about that. It would be pretty simple to do with a grant style, 3bolt or even a 5, or 6 bolt hub. The 3 bolt offers the best selection, but I have used them a lot in the past and I don't like their horn button setup, they are prone to comming apart. The others are much better. I know, quit whining! Everything is a trade off! Lol! My best friend is a very good, life long machinist. He likes to make cool signature items for projects like this, but his workload is pretty tuff right now. He offered to machine my spindle mount mags for rotors, and I thought about asking him to make some cool turn signal and tilt levers. Maybe I will see if he wants to be creative with the hub design. I hate to bother him, but I like having his flair on my projects. We have built a lot of things together over the years.

 

[choppedtop]

"Did you hang your pedals or put them under floor?"
Yes, my pedals are under floor mounts. I made the arms "C" shaped so they would travel down into the floor, rather than towards the firewall, if you know what I mean.

 

[fletcherson]

Very nice! I have seen some variations, but I like how you worked out the clutch linkage. Pretty slick.