A steering question

[2old2fast]

Not trying to be a jerk but that's a toe-in [&out] disaster!!
dave

 

[EX JUNK]

Very nice, clean installation on that rack.

Jim

 

[blyndgesser]

If you'd like R&P, here's mine:

Damn, that's slick, PotvinGuy.

 

[Ma_n_Pa T]

If you'd like R&P, here's mine:

PotvinGuy’s rack and pinion setup was the first one we seen that inspired us to use the R&P steering in our build, we have been very happy with the results since 2006, a little quick on the steering ratio but very nice driving, one hand steering and no bump-steer or death wobble. Like anything you add to these little cars they must be installed properly to work properly but I hate to see people talk poorly of them, a R&P setup works very good with a straight front axle, you don’t get the movement like you do in a IFS. We have started our new build and have used the same setup in it as well with longer steering arms to slow the ratio down some.
However mine is mounted under the front tub, rear steer rack and is both straight with the steering arms and also level when at ride height, you must take your time getting it level but they work great!
Jerry

 

[2old2fast]

While R&P steering may "work" for some , even you who are in favor must agree that everytime the front end cycles there is a drastic [in automotive frt end geometry terms ] change in toe in , not something I'd want to be happening !

dave

 

[Ma_n_Pa T]

While R&P steering may "work" for some , even you who are in favor must agree that everytime the front end cycles there is a drastic [in automotive frt end geometry terms ] change in toe in , not something I'd want to be happening !

dave

Yes I agree but your everyday driver does the same thing, measure the toe and then lift it up removing the weight then measure it again, see what you come up with, it would scare you. Ive built two R&P setups and have seen no problems with them, works good for me!

 

[Zandoz]

If you'd like R&P, here's mine:

That is one nifty setup you have there. I do have a bit of a soft spot for rack and pinion set ups....25 years of driving, repairing and restoring MGs. I definitely want to go with either an R&P or the Vega box cross steer setup. It appears that your tie rods are on a slight angle forward...is that the case or is it an optical illusion? If that is the case, have you noticed any detrimental effects because of it?

Bill

 

[Zandoz]

PotvinGuy’s rack and pinion setup was the first one we seen that inspired us to use the R&P steering in our build, we have been very happy with the results since 2006, a little quick on the steering ratio but very nice driving, one hand steering and no bump-steer or death wobble. Like anything you add to these little cars they must be installed properly to work properly but I hate to see people talk poorly of them, a R&P setup works very good with a straight front axle, you don’t get the movement like you do in a IFS. We have started our new build and have used the same setup in it as well with longer steering arms to slow the ratio down some.
However mine is mounted under the front tub, rear steer rack and is both straight with the steering arms and also level when at ride height, you must take your time getting it level but they work great!
Jerry

What type of R&P, and what length arms, are you using that you feel the ratio is too quick?

 

[PotvinGuy]

Yeah, the tie rods do angle forward a bit. And the Ackermann is correct...if the wheelbase was 47 ft! The spindles are old with integral arms and so that's why things turned out the way they did. On the list of things I want to do is get new spindles and arms. I don't know what effect the angle has, but I doubt much. New arms will be a little longer, which would slow the steering a bit. But I've been driving it for 20 years with no obvious problems.
Would like to add a steering damper someday, there is a lot of feedback with R&P. And maybe some shocks, but I want them to be trick and adjustable.
And also want to split the axle, like the old FatMan setup, which makes people crazy, but I like to experiment.

Ma_n_Pa, any pics of your front end?

 

[Ma_n_Pa T]

Yeah, the tie rods do angle forward a bit. And the Ackermann is correct...if the wheelbase was 47 ft! The spindles are old with integral arms and so that's why things turned out the way they did. On the list of things I want to do is get new spindles and arms. I don't know what effect the angle has, but I doubt much. New arms will be a little longer, which would slow the steering a bit. But I've been driving it for 20 years with no obvious problems.
Would like to add a steering damper someday, there is a lot of feedback with R&P. And maybe some shocks, but I want them to be trick and adjustable.
And also want to split the axle, like the old FatMan setup, which makes people crazy, but I like to experiment.

Ma_n_Pa, any pics of your front end?

Check your pm

 

[Ma_n_Pa T]

What type of R&P, and what length arms, are you using that you feel the ratio is too quick?

I pm you some info, the rack is a 93 metro, the steering arms on the first one was standard chevy spindle flat steering arms, the rack I had to shorten the tie rods 3/4 on each side add some threads for the total width, on the new build we made our own steering arms to fit chevy spindles out of 3/8x4x4 angle, made them 1 1/4" longer to center tie rod hole.

Jerry

 

[Zandoz]

Yeah, the tie rods do angle forward a bit. And the Ackermann is correct...if the wheelbase was 47 ft! The spindles are old with integral arms and so that's why things turned out the way they did. On the list of things I want to do is get new spindles and arms. I don't know what effect the angle has, but I doubt much. New arms will be a little longer, which would slow the steering a bit. But I've been driving it for 20 years with no obvious problems.
Would like to add a steering damper someday, there is a lot of feedback with R&P. And maybe some shocks, but I want them to be trick and adjustable.
And also want to split the axle, like the old FatMan setup, which makes people crazy, but I like to experiment.

Ma_n_Pa, any pics of your front end?

What length arms would you want to go to? A split axle arrangement is something I'd consider down the road, but I'll worry about that down the road when I have it built and running via more conventional means.

 

[PotvinGuy]

I'll make the new arms so the tie rods are straight out from the rack, instead of angled forward, and the Ackermann is correct. The split axle looks fun, and gets rid of the Panhard rod I have now. Also by moving the swing radius of the spindles closer to the swing of the tie rods, bumpsteer should be reduced. It's not bad now, but I do like to tweak.

 

[The Hustler]

This all sounds so complicated. Will I have this much trouble if I buy a kit build?

 

[EX JUNK]

This all sounds so complicated. Will I have this much trouble if I buy a kit build?

With a "kit", if it is a complete kit from one source, all the particulars of the steering are already worked out for you along with everything else.

Jim

 

[The Hustler]

Thank you, sure glad to hear that.

 

[Dirt-T]

I like the R&P . Should the steering arms be Parrnell?

 

[PotvinGuy]

No, Parrnell went out of business some years ago. Ahem. Mine work fine with the angle, and parallel is the way I'm going eventually. I don't anticipate a big difference.