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[GizmoJoe]

Mike,

Sorry, I have one system that still isn't able to login with IE 8.0.7600.16385, Win 7 Ent.64-bit ver 6.1.7600.
I've cleared cache but no go.

Since IE 8 is old and I mainly use Firefox it doesn't bother me.
I have 5 systems at home and about 40 I take care of at work. I'm not sure about most of them for this site though.

Tell me if there is something specific you would like me to check and I'll try to accommodate.

Joe

 

[Martin72]

Mike,
I'll give it a try Monday morning when I get in the office. My iPhone works with no problem.
I'm heading to New Orleans on Monday. I'll try logging in Monday night from the hotel. That will eliminate the company network issues.....but will still be using the same PC/laptop.
Martin

 

[Allen]

I'M SORRY--- MIKE

 

[Corley]

Mike,

I just got back from a Model A club cruise, and saw you message. I hooked up the Florence machine that fails, and I'm sorry to report that it still fails exactly the same after your change. I'll keep it here ready to test anything else you can think to try... Just let me know...

Corley

 

[sschutze]

Just tried logging in again with IE 8.0.06001.18702, no change, does not show me logged in.

 

[Mike]

Thank you, Allen.

OK, I'm going to light the sliding login function back up. I think we can safely say that isn't it.

Martin, that's going to be a pretty good test to either disprove or prove there is something happening in certain machines running certain browsers. Although Corley has already shown us that is the case, by moving his machine from one location to another.

For the record, I got a new build of Minefield 4.2a1pre (2011-04-10). And it's working, as you can see.

Why would such a small handful of machines suddenly start acting up after working fine, unless there is a rootkit involved?

 

[Corley]

Mike,

This AM I decided to fiddle with the failing Florence system a bit. I started deleting recent updates, then deleting programs. Here is a list of what I deleted.

KB3482017, KB2416400, KB2508974, KB 2524375, KB2479943, KB2481109, KB2971029, KB2476687, KB2393802, KB2478971, KB2478960, KB2483185, KB2419632, Adobe Reader + Update, Adobe Shockwave, Adobe Air, Adobe Acrobat, Google Desktop, Google Chrome, Google Earth, Picassa, Effective File Search, HP Software update, Fdoo Free DVD Ripper, Img Burn, All of Karen's utinilties, KB2492441, MS Silverlight, Sling Health Active X, MS Usermode Framework Pack 1.0, MSXML 4.0 SP2 (kb954430 and kb973688), NetViewer, Advance System Care, Compatibility Pack for Office 2007, Advanced IP Scanner, MS Compression Pack for XP, MS Digital Image Starter Edition, MS .Net Framework 3.5 SP1, MS .Net Framework 3.0, Windows Feature Pack for 32 bit Blu-Ray Storage update. Whew!!!


After each item I deleted, I rebooted the system, brought up IE, and then clicked my bookmark link which should take me directly to new content. However, it would instead come to an error screen saying I didn't have permission to use the search function. Then, I'd click to log in and attempt to log into the forum (even though it should have autmatically logged in using the saved ID and PW). In each and everycase, it still failed. One odd thing was that usually the login would take me to the drop down login, but occationally it would take me to the error log in screen. This is when I clicked on the "Click Here to login" link. If I clicked at the top of the screen for login, it always did the drop down loging.


I'm a bit tired of this after all those reboots, so have decided to wait a bit, but my next thought is to reinstall IE8. I thought I'd first try reinstalling it over the old version (don't know if that will even work), then maybe delete IE8, then install again. Then, if it still fails, I thought I'd attempt to reinstall XP over the current version. Anything you would like to know before I do that?

Corley

PS I found your survey interesting in that there are IE7 failures there, and I didn't know about those...

 

[Mike]

Yes, there have been some IE7 failures. After the last 10-12 days, everything has become a bit of a blur, so I can't recall exactly who was having problems with it and who wasn't.

This could end up driving us insane. Wait. Too late, I'm already insane.

A very close friend of mine was an electronics tech over at Purdue and ended up walking away from his retirement there to start his own company building computer systems. Purdue could not issue purchase orders to companies owned by their employees, so he ended up making more money from Purdue by quitting and selling them computers.

I've seen him build a system, perform burn-in tests and install software that would run just fine. He could turn around an build an identical system, with identical components, from the same sources, perform successful burn-in tests, install the same software with the same installation disk and the software would fail on the second system. You know, all it takes is one RAM address to be knackered and the whole house of cards can tumble down.

While it seems to be happening exclusively on Windows systems running Internet Explorer, it seems all versions of Windows are affected, as well as all versions of Internet Explorer, excluding IE9. Just not on all machines. Yet the problems on each machine seems to have cropped up at the same time. Which is why I wonder if it's not a trojan or a rootkit issue.

Something is unique on the affected machines. I've no idea what it is. Where does it end? Are we going to start comparing memory sticks? And then batch numbers on the sticks? What date code does this processor have on it, compared to that processor? Aha, could it be that only BioStar motherboards are affected, because these systems with Asus mobos are all working fine? But wait, this Kingston memory has 9-9-9-27 timing and that Corsair memory has 9-9-9-24 timing!! See what I mean? :wall:

At this point, all I can say is that the affected systems are proving what I've been saying all along. Microsoft sucks.

 

[Ted Brown]

Mike, here is something that I found by accident when I had that problem signing into my facebook page, for some reason my home page went to giving the local weather as if I lived in Brandon, Florida instead of Bakersfield, Ca. when I got it switched back to Bakersfield as my local, I then had no problem with facebook and/or your/this site... Just a thought, I am a real dummy when it comes to these computers... I use Google Chrome

 

[benT]

I upgraded my office computer to IE9 this morning and I can now log in OK. I never had issue at home, but I'm running XP with Firefox there. I wish I could use firefox here, but they discourage loading other software on company computers.

Anyway, crisis resolved here--time for lunch!

 

[Allen]

Mike --I have A NEW --iMAC--- AND IT WORKS JUST FINE!!! -----I can log in any time.

 

[Mike]

It was starting to look as if IE 9 was exempt from the issue, but I see someone has added it to the list.

All instances reported, to this point in time, are by Windows/IE users. All versions of Windows (released in the last 9+ years) and all versions of IE (released in the last 5 years) are affected. In looking at the total traffic for the site over the last 30 days, 57.51% have been Windows/IE users. We're typically seeing 110-120 members logging in each day, so why are so few members having this problem? We should have 60+ members experiencing the problem, if we use the previous numbers as a projection.

I received another Minefield build this morning. 4.2a1pre (2011-04-11) and I'm still plugging along with no problems.

 

[Martin72]

Mike,

I think I clicked IE9 in error. I was trying to remember what I'm running on my home computer. I know it's Windows7, but the more I think about it, I think it's still running IE8.
I'm on a plane heading to New Orleans now....won't be back home until late Thursday night.
Win7 and Chrome works good. Looks like it's a Win/IE problem, but only affecting a few users.
BTW, this is being typed on an iPhone 4 / Safari system via GoGo wifi on Delta.
Martin

 

[Mike]

Martin, your comment on the poll thread really hit the nail right on the thumb. The problem is very real, but it is also very narrow in scope. Which is making it impossible to track down. If, as it turns out, IE 9 is exempt from the problem, then that is a solution for everyone. Except those who access the site from a network and cannot install software of their choosing. And for those running on Win XP.

If you're on a network, you can always run an alternate browser from a memory stick. If you're running XP on a home system, you can merely install an alternate browser.

 

[Corley]

Mike,

Yesterday I took the failing Florence machine down a bit. I first re-installed IE8 over the current version, and that still failed just the same as before. I then removed IE8, and it dropped back to IE6, and that also failedjust about like IE8, but it had some other strange failures too. Then, I tried to reinstall IE8, and the machine blew it's head gasket. I'm now in the process of reinstalling XP, and will make tests at all steps during the reinstall/updates. Anyway, the net is that machine is no longer in a failing state as far as the T bucket site, it's now in a total failed state for anything. (Thank you MS for the clean software.). Sorry to loose the failed state, but I'll report how it goes as I have time to rebuild it. Luckily I was able to use Linux to extract all the personal files before the total crash, so I didn't really loose anything but some time... (and the failing status).


Corley

 

[Mike]

Hmmm, you just taught me something.

I then removed IE8, and it dropped back to IE6, and that also failedjust about like IE8, but it had some other strange failures too.

When you uninstalled IE8, your machine still had IE6 installed on it?

I would have thought Windows would have overwritten IE6 with later versions. Apparently it does not? It's really nice to know they are using up all the extra disk space to retain a useless version. As for the site not playing well with IE6, I am not surprised in the least. If it looked anything like the site is meant to appear, I would be gobsmacked.

But how about this business of IE6 still being on the machine, after you uninstalled IE8? I wonder how many of the affected machines still have a copy of IE6 archived on their hard drives? And could that, somehow or in some way, be the cause of our grief?

I hate to think you're going through all the grief of reinstalling XP, but squeezing the head gasket might give us our answer.

I'm assuming you are planning on reinstalling Firefox, yes? If so, install that prior to installing IE8. Get Firefox on the machine, then remove IE6. Get rid of it, entirely. Once it is gone, then download IE8 and try installing it. It isn't necessarily an ideal test, but if a clean and fresh install of IE8 works, when an install of IE8 over the top of IE6 did not, then I think we might have found our culprit. My two favorite browsers are Firefox and anything except IE.

Anyway, the net is that machine is no longer in a failing state as far as the T bucket site, it's now in a total failed state for anything. (Thank you MS for the clean software.). Sorry to loose the failed state, but I'll report how it goes as I have time to rebuild it.

I'm just sorry you're having to go to all the work of reinstalling a dated OS. As for losing what we were using as a control machine, I really don't think we were going to learn any more from it.

Luckily I was able to use Linux to extract all the personal files before the total crash, so I didn't really loose anything but some time... (and the failing status).

Linux to the rescue, once again. Were you able to boot into the Linux partition, or did you use a Live CD?

 

[Corley]

Mike,

Yes, it seems that MS is leaving IE6 behind when going to IE7 or 8. I wouldn't be surprize to find IE5 on there too, since it is on my original XP install disk! I guess ie6 got there as an update, maybe part of SP1?. At this point I'm not sure how to uninstall IE6, since it doesn't appear in the add/remove list, but I'll research that. Today is a very rare no rain day, so I have outside stuff to get done and will have to resume working on it tomorrow. (Lawns to mow, model A cab to sand blast, etc.) After the initial XP install, the network card (on board actually) is not recognized, so I'll have to figure that out, or just install the wireless drivers/card first.

I used a live USB stick to load Linux and retrieve the old files, because I didn't have a Linux partition on that machine. Worked like a charm to access the unbootable hard drive and get the files I cared about. Life was good to me there, at least I lost nothing, and I build / rebuild these things all the time, so it's no big deal.

I build a few PCs for people (mostly Srs) who can't afford one, from old junk machines that are either donated or I find at garage sales. It uses up old parts that no one wants and helps out some other folks... Some brands I really hate because they use their own special drivers / hardware, and you have to research to get the right stuff loaded. Dell, HP, Compaq, are among the worst... Later op sys's know about the hardware, but I use only XP since I have an unlimited license for it, and the later stuff is very expensive.

I may switch over to supplying Linux on the give away systems in the future when I find people are willing to accept it better... So far it takes more hand holding than Windows when I use it on a give away system. I've only used it twice, and both people wanted me to switch the machine back to Windows, just because they wanted what everyone else has. In truth, they probably only do mail and browsing, so it wouldn't really matter.

Corley

 

[Mike]

I heard from another member last evening, who could not log in. He was running Win 7 and IE 8. I recommended the upgrade to IE 9 and the problem vanished.

Corley, I'm betting if you delete IE 6 (which is possible, although you have to jump through a couple of hoops), you're going to discover IE 5 has been restored. Microsoft could foresee cloud-computing and they wanted to ensure everyone was going to be able to access the cloud, so they made sure to inter-weave Internet Explorer throughout the Windows shell.

The deeper we get into this, the more I find myself loving Linux.

Restoring older computers is a really neat project to help seniors get a computer and get online. And yes, if they are merely wanting an online box, Linux works great. None of the Windows vulnerabilities to trap the Windows users that are not always on guard and a much faster operating system. And with some of the Linux distros having such a small footprint, you can run them on really old systems without huge hard drives and truckloads of RAM. And with LibreOffice/Open Office being compatible with Microsoft Office file formats, Linux is a natural. If someone is unfamiliar with Windows, nearly all Linux distros are as easy to teach to them as any Windows release. Linux has come a long way in the last 4-5 years.

 

[Corley]

Mike,

Personally, I don't get the "cloud". I don't want my data spread all over the universe, I want it right here on my machine. I hate Windows Live anything, and don't use it. The Chrome operating system just doesn't make sense to me, and I wonder what the point is to the cloud. (Chrome browser seems OK though.) I'm pretty sure "the cloud" is someone's way to take my money away from me. Guess I'm too old for all this new fangled stuff, or maybe I'm just a bit paranoid about where my data resides. My Samsung Epic Android phone is just about all the data sharing I can take. (But it sure is fun to play with all those FREE cool power apps available.)

Corley

 

[Martin72]

Mike,


More info....and will confirm what we've thought all along (I think).

Earlier this week, I was working in Louisiana and tried to access the site using my company laptop. I was in the hotel and tried to log in via their wireless network. I did NOT use our company VPN account, just went straight to the Web. Not able to logon...same problem as before. This eliminates our company network as the problem.

The next morning, I was working at one of our sites. I "borrowed" another user's laptop. He was logged onto the network as himself. I tried to logon the site....same problem as before. I then tried another user's desktop...same problem. When I check the operating system / browser, I found them to be identical to my laptop (WinXP Professional Ver. 2002 Service Pack 3 / IE 7 Ver. 7.0.5730.13CO). This confirms what I thought....my company keeps all the PCs identical. Makes it easier for them to trouble shoot problems within our systems.

I'm back in my office logged in via Safari (hey, they approved the iPhone and iTunes loaded Safari, so it must be OK to use!) with no problems. This confirms (to me) that it's a IE-7 problem somewhere. Some update, some change in code, something is causing the problem. As you said earlier, upgrade to IE-9 solves the problem.

I'll use IE for all my company work....and when I want to sneak in here, I'll just use Safari until the IT guys catch it. You also mentioned getting to know your IT guys....well.....my company 'outsourced' IT support a bit over a year ago. When you call IT support, the call goes to Mexico City and the tech there have a 'cheat seat' of about 20 questions (all very simple fixes). If that doesn't solve the problem, their fix is to have you send in your laptop, they re-format the drive and re-load all the basic approved programs. That's why I avoid calling them for anything.

Thanks for all the help. For the limited number of users with this problem, it appears the fix is to upgrade to a newer IE browser version, or load any of the other (and better) browsers.

Oops....I just saw a window pop up....my company is installing more updates. Who knows what will happen now.

Have fun,

Martin