Frame welding table/platform

[oldtman]

someone gave me a 2 x 2 steel tube frame , 4 x 8 table with1/4 in plate top and I added castors. I have a southworth lift table that will drop into a recess I built into the floor so I can roll heavy stuff on and push the button to bring it up to match the table height. When I built the last frame I started with the CCR plans and followed their tack weld instructions and welded in 1 inch beads alternating to minimize warping. I keep a box of horseshoe nails in the top drawer of the tool box. , they are mini wedges that I can use to align pieces if they start to warp when tacking. I have the pieces behind the barn from a commercial demolition job to build a roll around frame jig. I will probably build one like they had in the shop at UVU . check out chris davenport aluminum 40 willis he built from scratch. when I'm down south I'll get some picts and measurements and also copy their louver press. I got all the hydralics from a junk tractor.

 

[benT]

Cheer up buddy-- I've got dozens of stories about the parts I've made twice or even three times before it was right. One example: building the doors on my car were the biggest PITA and I ruined them the first time. I thought I got it right the second time, but after painting, the doors no longer fit. I finally figured out the two reasons why:
1. not enough gap clearance prior to final paint--after paint they were physically bigger and the jamb was physically smaller.
2. I had the body bolted to a roll around stand while I was doing the door work. Once it was bolted to the frame, the body sat a bit different and the jambs were slightly different shape. Doh! I had to grind and reshape the freshly painted door and jamb and repaint. Aghh! pisses me off just thinking about it again!

Point of the story is that this will happen several times--and it probably happens to all pro-builders too. You just have to cool off and get back on the horse (make that horseless carriage) tomorrow!

 

[mikesplumbing]

Thanks Ben, it's a crappy feeling for sure.....but now I'll tell you what really happened!

Your not going to believe this!!!!

A few minutes ago I went back out in my garage and just wanted to sit down and have a beer. So.....i'm sitting there for about a minute when I noticed something really odd, but first i'll explain how the table is built.

The table top is a 2 x 4 frame with a layer of commercial grade melamine for the top. For spreaders I have two internal frames that I put in for support and also to shim the top so it was perfectly flat. Anyhow, I'm sitting and I noticed a bunch of screws missing that I just knew I didn't take out because that would be plain stupidity. I also saw the shims were gone and I could see a gap.

So i'm checking things out further and I stick my head under the top and noticed the frame support under the critical area was MISSING!!!!!!

Then it dawned on me that Monday my 5 year old son had some 2 x 4 scrap in the yard because he wanted to build his own garage!!!! It struck me as really odd because while he was playing with it I just couldn't remember having any scrap lumber but Henry is clever becasuse he always hids stuff like that so he has it for later because he knows I like to throw things away. It all makes sense now, I went in his bedroom and he is sound asleep with the latest issue of street rodder clinched in his hands..............AARRGGGG!!!!!

Mike

 

[benT]

Thanks Ben, it's a crappy feeling for sure.....but now I'll tell you what really happened!

Your not going to believe this!!!!

A few minutes ago I went back out in my garage and just wanted to sit down and have a beer. So.....i'm sitting there for about a minute when I noticed something really odd, but first i'll explain how the table is built.

The table top is a 2 x 4 frame with a layer of commercial grade melamine for the top. For spreaders I have two internal frames that I put in for support and also to shim the top so it was perfectly flat. Anyhow, I'm sitting and I noticed a bunch of screws missing that I just knew I didn't take out because that would be plain stupidity. I also saw the shims were gone and I could see a gap.

So i'm checking things out further and I stick my head under the top and noticed the frame support under the critical area was MISSING!!!!!!

Then it dawned on me that Monday my 5 year old son had some 2 x 4 scrap in the yard because he wanted to build his own garage!!!! It struck me as really odd because while he was playing with it I just couldn't remember having any scrap lumber but Henry is clever becasuse he always hids stuff like that so he has it for later because he knows I like to throw things away. It all makes sense now, I went in his bedroom and he is sound asleep with the latest issue of street rodder clinched in his hands..............AARRGGGG!!!!!

Mike

I'm a "the glass is half full" kinda guy. I see a lot of positives:
1. You found the problem and can remedy it quickly.
2. It didn't cost too much of your time, and didn't cost any $$
3. You will check this next time.
4. Most important, your son appears to have great mechanical skills already and will grow up to love cars and tools!

It also reminds me that I used to take the screws out of the cots in pre-school at nap time. I took them home and with other erector set parts made all kinds of stuff. I finally got in trouble for it, but my dad had a hard time actually punishing me for it. I think he was pretty proud that a 4 to 5 year old could do it and wanted to build stuff. I'm now an architect and love tools, old machinery, and hot rods!

 

[mikesplumbing]

The best part is I can't even tell my wife what happened because a couple weeks ago when I showed him how to use my cordless drill Henry ran in the house with it all excited to tell Kristie he knows how to use it. Well, Kristie opened up the garage door to tell me I was nuts because every screw in the house Henry will want to take apart!!!

If I told her what happened then I'd have to listen to her tell me how she was right....and I can't do that!!!!!

Mike

 

[mikesplumbing]

That's a good story Ben......now if I can only figure out what he did with all the screws. And I know it's not in his erector set! Guess i'll find out when I mow the lawn tomorrow!

I'm not even going to mention it to him, but he is going to help me fix the table!!!!!

Always something exciting going on at the Johnsons

Mike

 

[Youngster]

hahahaha ...reminds me of me!!!! Great stories to tell years from now for both you and your son Mike.

On a serious note Mike, look at the posiblities of straightening your pieces. One cool thing that is nice about metal is with the right tools you can move it all over the place. A good hyro press maybe all you need.

Ron

 

[LKE]

Mike, just ebcause somethign is clamped down when welded, doesnt mean it wont spring when unclamped. The expansion and contraction from welding will still pull and twist the metal. The best way to make sure this doesnt happen is to heat around the weld to take the stress away, before unclamping.
And having things go wrong is just part of building things. If something doesnt seem right, or look as good as you want, dont be afriad to start over. Here is my most recent oops... Parting tool on the lathe grabbed it, tore it out of the chuck, and thru it on the floor at my feet

 

[Youngster]

I have pieces missing from my scrap box everytime people vist the shop. My '27 has the 4th front spring pearch on it and the 5th is in my head now.

Ron

 

[oldtman]

At one time I worked for a place that made parts for the harley factory., When they were welded and cooled down I would put them in a fixture to measure all dimensions.,. they looked tweeked. When I went across the lot to the other building the welder had a big cheater pipe to bend them so they would fit in his checking jig. I called out the engineer in charge and he said his fixture was dead on. the problem was the welds cooled and would pull the parts. I had a real hard time convincing the engineer to build in some Kentuckey windage. Build 10 pieces using the same welding patern then measure and build in a curve in the fixture so the parts would be straight when they were cooled.

 

[mikesplumbing]

It's a good thing I didn't cut the rails up because I took the advice and I was able to fix them. A buddy I do business with owns an excavating company and we took the rails to his shop and put them on his press. They fix their own machines and have a massive hydraulic press so we heated the weld up and gently brought the tails in just a smidge. It's all good!

Thanks for calming me down guys!!!:welxome:

Mike

 

[all-world1]

I might be weighing in kinda late here, but this what I did. I built a small portable workbench out of 2x4s and sheeted it with 3/4" osb so it would easily accept the U-bolts. When the rails and crossmembers were all squared up, I reefed down the u-bolts and everything was tight and square. Then I built up a bit of a jig to keep the model a crossmember secure while I clamped the kick to the main rails and top rails.

 

[mikesplumbing]

Interesting......I see you made the rear tail pieces a little different. Looks nice with the taper.

When you weld the kick up joints etc., do you weld the side joint in one pass once it's tack welded? Or do you weld half way....stop to let it cool.......and then finish welding the second half.

This whole warping thing has me a bit nervous, even when it's clamped it does warp a little. I fixed my table and did a practice piece. After it cooled I took it out and it was a little warped. I had really solid tack welds.........clamped hard.......did the top and bottom.......cooled.........welded the one side.....and when I un-bolted the test piece it still had a little bit of warp.

I havn't tried welding an inch at a time but i'm thinking i'm going to have to.

Mike

 

[all-world1]

Mike, the man responsible for those cool top rail tapers is Youngster, a true metal artist.

As for welding the kicks, originally I did do the short welds and if I remember correctly, did the 3" sides in 1" welds and the 1 1/2" tops and bottoms in 3/4" welds. And I alternated stitches in left and right rails and also outside and inside rails which really allowed for decent cooling. But in the process, the welds look really good, however there was either a bit of warpage on one side or something got out of line during the welding and I ended up with one kick not being exactly in line with the main rail. I got a competent friend to redo my shoddy work.

I'm kinda new to welding so I found that the short welds come out way better for me than the long ones.

Right now I'm dealing with some very minor warpage in my front spring perch, thinking of just letting it go.

 

[mikesplumbing]

So it's not just me? LOL

For years I have been welding thin wall aircraft tubing and it warps also. Most tubes are 4130 CM and the size is around 5/8 - 3/4" OD with a wall thickness of .035. I never really had a problem because I used an Oxy set-up and I would always slowly heat it up, weld it, then slowly cool it.

I've had my Millermatic 135 MIG for a long time and have always welded a few part here and there with great results. Now days i'm a bit out of practice and it shows. I can see where really good tack welds and working in 1" increments would be an advantage.

Mike

 

[all-world1]

Tacks are my specialty, the longer the welds are after that, the worse they look...lol.

The tapered front rails were done in 1" welds, alternating between rails and allowing to cool....close to 100 welds, took a long time but I was happy with the results.

Craig

 

[alteredpilot]

here's what i did ....
i had a 10' length of 4x4x.250 which i cut in half and braced up with some lengths of 1.5x3x.125
its made to hold the flat section of a model A frame, but works great for bucket frames. lots of clamps....
in this set up i was using a twin post lift to level the fixture, but at home i have a rolling metal table that it sits on.