Hey Guy! Heads up on all this fuel with Ethanol....

[Screaming Metal]

I have, today, just replaced 4 Weber side draft carbs, because of Ethanol. A Long standing client of mine brought in his streetrod, complaining of backfiring, hard starting. I tore into the carbs....Holy Crap! What a mess....
Luckily I just recieved another set of carbs for another build, that will be awhile, so I switched them out.
These things are totally trashed, so, all you guys with the new carbs and the EFI's....do yourself a favor, every so often, like every other tank at least, drop some of the 'Carb Defender' fuel additive into your tanks. You can get it from Joe Gibbs Racing or select speed shops. The stuff works....
There might be other brands out there that are less expensive, if anyone knows of any, speak up so our guys won't get their stuff trashed by this mess....
Even if you watch and look at stations with non-ethanol fuels....if they use the same tanks, and put new fuel in at the service station, you could possibly get a big gulp of water....

Take care out there guys!

 

[railroad]

Good advise, never hurts to remind those unaware of the affects. I use Stabil Marine formula in all my engines that sit for more than a week.

 

[Screaming Metal]

The bad part about it RR is that Ethanol absorbs water and ethanol is locked into the fuel, meaning, after sitting for awhile, the ethanol won't seperate from the fuel, but the water is still there.
That in itself isn't good for any auto. Heet works but don't know if it'll remove the water thats bonded into the methanol....

 

[Johnny]

Do ya need that if ya drive your car every week end?

 

[BRUCE DYDA]

This is the Gov. way of getting rid of all the old cars, that and no-zinc oils

 

[railroad]

Do ya need that if ya drive your car every week end?

Probably not, but I add some Stabil to the ones that might set for a week or so. I have not noticed any drivability issues with my daily drivers.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Main thing is to be aware of this issue and to add something to help remove the water in the first place. I don't think that it'd hurt probably if driven everyday, but if it sits any length of time, it would possibly have a accumulative effect.
Just know its out there and can possibly cause some problems down the road....
I know that the crap trashed 4 new Webers....it was aweful....

 

[Wild Mango]

Screamin' , I'm not convinced the water is the problem. JM2CW. Down here a popular open wheel dirt speedway class uses (rule booked) carburettors and alky. Lot of guys (inc my son in law) run Weber sidedrafts because they are so adjustable. Long ago they learned to put fuel in the carbs immediately before warm up and wash it out with petrol (gasoline) immediately after the meeting, otherwise the carbs turned to junk in short order starting with the brass jets. All sorts of attempted fixes like chrome or Teflon plating the float bowls and floats merely stave off the inevitable for a longer time. The problem seems to be galvanic corrosion and its due to the conductivity of the methanol/ethanol - could be that water makes it worse, of course.
Perhaps the lesson is, alky fuels in any concentration are not so good in the daily driver, just fine for racin'. One fuel company down here tried a gasohol mix on the public, they stayed clear in droves after fuel system problems and higher fuel consumption became evident.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Thanks for the tip Mango! Anywho, I'm gonna send some of the mess to the lab boys to see whats going on. Will take a few days to know, but. Didn't think of that, but surely this guy is a racer, he ought to know better than try that on his street car. I'm gonna give him a call....just in case....

 

[sstock]

I have first hand experience with Alky blended gasoline, in my case a boat. The fuel actually did separate leaving gasoline on top layer and a thin layer of what I think is alcohol (milky) and water underneath. Funny thin is I shook it up in a mason jar and it never recombined, it layered out.
Steve

 

[Johnny]

Dang environmentalist nuts!!

 

[Screaming Metal]

Well, the dude didn't run any straight alky, but was feeding it on a steady diet of E85.... how the hell we gonna run this crud....reminds me of all the mess back in the late 70s with the Gasahol....
Pumped his tank dry, sending it off to the lab....the crap has seperated....he has a plastic tank.
I can tell its got a ton of water in it....I'm used to running alky in the FC's, this mess isn't good....

 

[Wild Mango]

Another 2CW. Did some homework with a chemical engineer colleague.
Alcohol and water are miscible, in other words, they mix. Pure Ethanol and Gasoline, ditto. Water and gasoline don't, and alcohol with a small amount of water in it don't mix with gasoline. As sstock observed, the water/alcohol splits out. Putting water in alcohol significantly increases the conductivity of the resultant liquid, not as conductive as sea water but getting there. Water/alcohol mix in an aluminium carburettor with brass jets and emulsion tubes = galvanic cell = galvanic corrosion - a complex series of chemical reactions amongst all the metals present and electrically connected by the electrolyte, resulting in a simple disaster.
Two dissimilar metals (ally and brass) immersed in an electrolyte (water/alcohol) makes a battery. The less noble metal (brass in this case) gives up electrons and wastes away first (sacrificial anode).
Chemical engineers among us will very correctly tell us that there are a lot of different alcohols and all behave differently. They will also tell us that Ethanol and Methanol are not really the same alcohols, true as well, but for the purposes of this exercise we can take them as similar and be close enough to what causes the problem.
Just to put icing on an unpleasant cake, Ethanol and Methanol are both highly hydroscopic, that is, they love water and will readily absorb it even from a humid atmosphere

 

[TriodeLuvr]

I recently repaired several of my gas-powered lawn tools and had a chance to talk to a mechanic who's been in the business several decades. Here are a few things I learned...

Stabil is only good for about two months at the outside. After that, the water/ethanol separates from the gas anyway. In a two-stroke mix, the oil will also separate. Pouring the mix into your weedeater may give it a diet of pure gas. Some of the watercraft companies are beginning to void purchaser warranties in areas where gas supplies exceed 15% ethanol. This occurs primarily in the Northeast. The only way to protect a motor being stored longer than two months is to completely drain all the gas. This requires not only emptying the tank, but also running the motor until it stalls or (better) removing the carb and emptying the float bowl.

You can thank the agriculture lobbies and corrupt government for this mess.

 

[vand]

In our area there are several places that sell real gas for off highway use. If you don't want to use it all season just run the crap fuel out and run a little real gas through the system until the fuel runs out. Don't forget the Green stabil is the only one that works with Ethanol.

 

[2old2fast]

Well ,always being the contrarion ,I'll throw in my $.02 worth , I live in central Ill. so we run 10% ethanol , when the driving season comes to an end, I fill the tank & park the T & put the cover on it , put the mower in the shed , hang the trimmer on a hook , make sure the covers on the boat , & go about my business. I have had no fuel system problems in any of my "summer" toys , I dunno , maybe I'm lucky , maybe all this hype about ethanol is B.S. , I kinda favor the latter...

dave

 

[Carolina Man]

In our area there are several places that sell real gas for off highway use. If you don't want to use it all season just run the crap fuel out and run a little real gas through the system until the fuel runs out. Don't forget the Green stabil is the only one that works with Ethanol.

Here you can buy real gas easily and usually runs about .10 cents more a gallon.It's also legal to run on the street, the next big thing here is CNG but the problem is the conversion isn't cost friendly, the price of CNG is a $1.00 a gallon.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Well ,always being the contrarion ,I'll throw in my $.02 worth , I live in central Ill. so we run 10% ethanol , when the driving season comes to an end, I fill the tank & park the T & put the cover on it , put the mower in the shed , hang the trimmer on a hook , make sure the covers on the boat , & go about my business. I have had no fuel system problems in any of my "summer" toys , I dunno , maybe I'm lucky , maybe all this hype about ethanol is B.S. , I kinda favor the latter...

dave

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/...n-gasoline-and-its-effects-on-collector-cars/

http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/magazine/2012/april/EthanolAndOlderEngines.asp

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2009/06/is-fuel-with-an-increased-level-of-ethanol-a-problem-for-small-gas-engines/index.htm

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20080624/NEWS/156280343

Hope you don't have any troubles with it, but everybody usually does. Just wait till it happens though....its not pretty.

 

[2old2fast]

My grandpa always said , "Believe 1/2 of what you read , & less what people tell you " , I go with what works for me !

dave

 

[Screaming Metal]

This is the Gov. way of getting rid of all the old cars, that and no-zinc oils

They have a program in place that when they get old cars, they put this stuff in the fuel and the oilpan, then run them. They are not any good after that. This is what this country has turned into....
We're a nation of hotrodders....every since the Model A and T we've been modifying them for speed, now we'll be lucky to have a lawnmower to hop up.