Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the T-Bucket Forums discussions? Then sign up for a free forum account, today!

Sign Up

Ron Pope Motorsports                California Custom Roadsters                Spirit Industries                Southern Legacy Freight!               


Dismiss Notice
Thank you for visiting the T-Bucket Forums! This site was created in 2006, to provide enthusiasts with a place to discuss T-Buckets. Over the years, there have been many imitators, but this is the T-Bucket resource you have been looking to find. We encourage you to register a FREE account and join in on the discussions.

How much wire . . . .

Discussion in 'Electrics' started by Island Girl, Sep 23, 2020.

  1. Island Girl

    Island Girl
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2018
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    980
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Manager
    Hi Guys, . . . Need some feedback on how much wire to order.

    I ordered a Deutsch connectors kit, (along with an extra pins kit) and I'm ready to order wire.

    Given the tropical marine climate here, regular automotive wire isn't the best choice, as copper tends to turn black and get extremely brittle over time.

    The better choice is to use marine grade wire with a higher strand count, and where each strand is individually tinned, like this stuff.

    Since it's rather expensive, (even for something other than Anchor brand) I was hoping you guys could make some recommendations for how much of #12, #14, #16, and maybe #18 I should order, and some suggested colors for each.

    I figure red and black for #12 & #14, since it will be mostly for 12V power, and other colors for #18 which would usually be for things like temp/oil pressure sensors.
     
  2. PotvinGuy

    PotvinGuy
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,608
    Likes Received:
    447
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Quantum Mechanic (semi-retired)
    IG, what loads will you have? Lights, horn, starter, ignition, electric fan(s)...what else? I'd use 12 or 14 for these. Then 18 would be OK for sensors and such.
    Where will you put the fuse panel? And where is the battery?
     
  3. Island Girl

    Island Girl
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2018
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    980
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Manager

    Battery is under the seat. . . Fuse panel and relay panel both under the dash, or at least that's the plan for now.
    Alternator back to battery, probably #6 or #8
    Radiator fan is ~30A, so I was going to use #10 for that, #12 for the starter & horn, #14 for the headlights/turn signals & tail/brake lights, trans cooler fans, and mostly #14 or #16 as appropriate for whatever else I may end up with, trans lockup comes to mind there..

    Not planning to have a radio or electric wipers

    The car kit came with a Painless fuse panel with all the wiring marked, but it's just copper automotive wire, and I'd feel better with a Blue Sea fuse panel with all marine wire.
     
  4. Indycars

    Indycars
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2,012
    Likes Received:
    713
    Gender:
    Male
    I bought rolls of wire and the only way to get a decent price was buying 100 foot rolls. I would
    think that 25 foot rolls for the large load components and 100 foot rolls for the 18 gauge.

    I used the Deutsch connector in both DT and DTM from WireCare.

    DT, Installer Kit w/o Crimper, Gray - WireCare.com
    DTM Gray Installer Kit - WireCare.com

    DelCity has a better price than the Amazon link you provided ...... $46 vs $37.73 for 100 foot rolls,
    but they also sell 25 foot rolls for $11.67

    12 Gauge Marine Grade Tinned Wire - 25 Feet

    To organize my wire I bought a plastic storage box from Lowe's and some dowel rods.

    WiringBoxOrganizer_06014.jpg

    The goal for my wiring project was to have something that looked like this ..... from PotvinGuy

    PotvinGuy_Wiring_Panel_Installed02.JPG
    .
     
    rbsWELDER, Bad Bob and choppedtop like this.
  5. choppedtop

    choppedtop
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,804
    Likes Received:
    502
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    You can't beat Del City on wiring products. Plastic tie wraps, and heat shrink is priced well also.
     
    rbsWELDER and Indycars like this.
  6. Island Girl

    Island Girl
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2018
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    980
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Manager
    That DelCity place looks like the place to order from . . . even has the top name brand Anchor marine wire at good prices.

    I don't need anything as elaborate as that installation, but I can see that it wouldn't take long to come close to a grand, (or more) ordering wire like your "tub-O-wire", some adhesive heat shrink and terminals with the proper ratcheting crimper, . . . . Still. that's probably the best way to get a top tier installation and get all the shipping and waiting done in one whack.

    Looks like I'll be making a list and checking it twice . . . then just ordering like a mad woman . . . :roflmao:
     
    Indycars, lincolnuT and Spanky like this.
  7. old round fart

    old round fart
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,943
    Likes Received:
    873
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Spirit may have some suggestions. They may even have a harness kit. Just thinking. I’m surprised a harness didn’t come with your kit.
     
  8. Island Girl

    Island Girl
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2018
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    980
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Manager

    They include one of those "Painless Wiring" 6 circuit fuse blocks with all the cables marked, but a harness would be pretty tough with all the possible combinations and mounting locations.

    Much as it might simplify some things, I want to avoid regular automotive wire in favor of the marine grade wire.
     
  9. Bad Bob

    Bad Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Administrator with rolled up sleeves
    Agreed... particularly on the lesser amounts for thicker gauges.
    Don't forget grommets for holes (I have all my front wires run through the frame), lots of grounding cable and ends, heat shrink tubing and solder.
    Mine came with a Speedway 12 circuit harness, but no matter how I laid it out I couldn't get everything I wanted out of it, so I ended up selling it and running all the circuits freehand.
    Part of that was because I ran the grounds for the fan and headlights all the way back to the firewall to protect the aluminum radiator.
    I will admit the wiring was the worst part of the rebuild... what looked good on paper was a royal pain in reality.
    Total cost is unknown, but I would hazard about $500 - $700 after all the supplies.
    I will admit to running several lines twice because I wasn't as careful as I should have been... so there is that
     
  10. Indycars

    Indycars
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2,012
    Likes Received:
    713
    Gender:
    Male
    I would also suggest that you buy CLEAR shrink wrap and a LABEL machine to identify
    your wires. The labels will not stay on wires that are smaller than 12 gauge consistently. Mine
    are still there but started lifting in short order and look tacky now. This has to be done before
    installing the connector. OR you can go with the Flag style label.

    I ordered the DYMO Industrial Label Maker Rhino 4200 Label Maker and three different sizes (Width) label material.
    .
     
    Bad Bob likes this.
  11. PotvinGuy

    PotvinGuy
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,608
    Likes Received:
    447
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Quantum Mechanic (semi-retired)
    Indy and I have wiring OCD, so take anything we say and have a big margarita with lots of salt before reading.
    Here's a great addition to your wiring job: amazon.com/gp/product/B07R4Z13P3 Love these solder/shrink connectors. Now how much wire? Note that I like to run ground wires to all loads instead of using the frame or engine block. Now if you have single-wire sensors such as water temp, that use the block as ground, you either go with the block or add a ground wire to the sensor. Actually, since the block has to be grounded for the starter to work, you do have a ground path thru it, but I still don't like using parts as grounds. It can make debugging harder and it can screw up electronics like EFI. End of sermon.
    Where was I? How much wire. Ballpark: If your car is ~10 ft long and you have 5 loads at rear and 5 loads at rear, AND you run ground wires, then you need maybe 50' of red and 50' of black, 14ga. Here's a nice way to get that wire: amazon.com/American-Tinned-Oxygen-Copper-Sheathed/dp/B0799JDF5K Red and black in a sheath, very slick. Get 100'; you deserve it and will thank me someday. Plus maybe ~100' of assorted colors of 18ga for small loads like gauges, LED lighting. Del City has 35' spools for $7; get all 6 and sleep well. Even marine wire is not all that expensive and it's nice to have extra around when you get inspired down the road, as we fully expect you to do.
    Does the fan really draw 30 amps? Maybe at turn-on? My fans pull 4 amps each running, but they will blow a 20 amp fuse at turn-on. And there are fan controllers with soft-start and variable speed ( I use this one: JEGS 10575: Variable Speed Fan Controller, Adjustable Activation from 160 to 240 Degrees F | JEGS), which makes your car cooler (pun!) than the other cars.
    Keep us informed. If all goes well I get the credit. If not blame Indy.
     
    #11 PotvinGuy, Sep 24, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
  12. Island Girl

    Island Girl
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2018
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    980
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Manager
    The fan is the biggest "BeCool" they had at Summit, 3000+ cfm and it's 26 amps in the spec, so 30 wasn't far off. I'm afraid to guess what startup must be, lol . . . It's made by Spal

    With the heavy big block and a lot of HP, I don't want to drill the frame to run wires inside, especially the way the headlight brackets require a hole in the "corner" of the rail.
    Any hole I make has to be tapped with a screw pulled up tight.

    I will be running grounds back to the terminal blocks, frame and chassis grounds can be pretty "iffy" sometimes, especially in challenging environments.
     
  13. PotvinGuy

    PotvinGuy
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,608
    Likes Received:
    447
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Quantum Mechanic (semi-retired)
    And I like these fuses that light up when they blow: ATO® Smart Glow Fuses
    Nice when you are on a dark road, which is when fuses always blow.
     
  14. Island Girl

    Island Girl
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2018
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    980
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Manager

    Well now ya know, a girl could go just plum crazy with all those fancy do-dads and stuff . . . . . worse than a drag queen at a plus size shoe store sale :x3:
     
    choppedtop likes this.
  15. PotvinGuy

    PotvinGuy
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,608
    Likes Received:
    447
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Quantum Mechanic (semi-retired)
    I hear you. Try finding stilettos in 14A. Not that I would know.
     
    Indycars and choppedtop like this.
  16. Bad Bob

    Bad Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Administrator with rolled up sleeves
    Stillettos? :laugh:

    Total agreement about the grounds.
    Even though I have 3 ground straps from motor to frame, I still put a ground panel under my dash, run a 10g wire off of the negative battery terminal and use it for almost everything except the starter (gauges, fan, fuel pump, headlights, etc.) It actually made troubleshooting easier. (Since I rarely get things 100% on the first try, I was glad to have those connections within easy reach...)
    And double yeah on the label maker. I only have black, red, yellow, green and brown colored wires. I left the labels on the ends since they are under the dash anyway.
    I will admit that the electrics were the most hair pulling part of the build for me.
    A battery-powered icepick circuit tester and a simple bulb-style tester became my best friends there for a few weeks.:rolleyes:
     
  17. Indycars

    Indycars
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2,012
    Likes Received:
    713
    Gender:
    Male
    Now there's a picture I'm having trouble purging from my mind ! :laugh:
     
    lincolnuT and Bad Bob like this.
  18. Bad Bob

    Bad Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Administrator with rolled up sleeves
    (my brain immediately went to an image of Tim Curry in "Rocky Horror Picture Show...:roflmao:)
     
    Indycars likes this.
  19. Indycars

    Indycars
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2,012
    Likes Received:
    713
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm guessing they are twins from a different mother ! :cool:
     
    Bad Bob likes this.
  20. Bad Bob

    Bad Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Administrator with rolled up sleeves
    Well.. I'll bet Mr. PV guy is a handsome fellow... (he had a wife last I heard... not an easy thing to pull off when you're as homely as me.)
    Ah, well... some folks get looks and brains...
    I'm pretty sure I got shorted on both... :thumbsdown:
     
    rbsWELDER likes this.






Advertise with Us! Advertise with Us! Advertise with Us! White Rose Technology Ting Mobile Buy VPN


SSL Certificate