My EV rant . . .

[Spanky]

The tree-huggers are winning. Factory orders for internal combustion engines are down. Blue state legislatures are gearing up to pass restrictive laws for IC-engined cars. Fossil fuel pipelines are being shut down, and probably won’t be reactivated, in spite of what Republican legislators may tell you. My daughter-in-law works for a major automaker in their foundry division, and production orders for engine blocks and transmission cases are way off. She’s looking for another job!

The ridiculous thing is, when the fossil-fueled power plants have to gear up to meet the demand on the power grid for additional charging stations they will create a larger carbon footprint than the new generation of IC-powered cars ever would, and as the government exercises more control over public utilities, your freedom to move around the country as you please may be in jeopardy. How did this get away from us? The new generations of young people are being fed a lot of falsehoods about our planet and manmade global warming, and fossil fuels are the villain in many textbooks, even though there is probably enough fossil fuel below the earth’s surface to provide the world’s needs for a thousand years. We’re just beginning to learn how to extract it.

So forget about the future of hot rods as we know them. I guess the next generation won’t have to worry about ear damage from loud engines.

“Man, did you hear the rotor-whine in that baby???”

 

[Indycars]

So I guess this thread is an all out, no hold bars, let the opinions fly..... Spanky that you always try to quell ??????

This is not going to end well !

 

[choppedtop]

All of my vehicles are paid for. All I have to do is feed them gas, oil, and tires, with a bit of maintenance now and then. So if I live long enough am I going to have to buy and electric pos that I cannot afford to do at this time of life? Then perhaps 5 years later have to cough up dollars for new batteries. I did rent a Ford gas/electric cars a few years ago and it was nice to drive with no worries about finding a charging station. When it ran low on power the little gas engine came on for a bit and charged things up again. Hit passing gear and the gas engine come on and gave the batteries little boost. Still sooner or later it is going to have to have new batteries. Oh ya, in 1400 miles it burned about 5 gallons for gas. My little rant is over and out,,,,,,,,for now.
now Spankster, don't get me going again.

 

[PotvinGuy]

One common question about EVs is "where will we get all the electricity to charge them?" So I did some poking around for facts:

The annual electricity used by the USA for all purposes: 4 trillion kWh, or 4 thousand billion kWh. I would use exponents but only eggheads appreciate them.

There are 2.5 million EVs on US roads today; 1% of the 250 million vehicles in the US.

Each EV uses an annual average of 4 thousand kWh, based on 10,000 miles driven and 0.4 kWh/mile (I have sources, some even respectable, for all these numbers). For perspective the average house uses 10 thousand kWh/yr.

So the total electricity used by all the EVs today is 10 billion kWh annually. That is 0.25% of all the electricity used by the US. That's probably less than is used by all the kitchen toasters in the country. I haven't done the math on that, and any other nerd is welcome to try. In any case it's trivial…now.

If the number of EVs quadruples (which could happen in a few years) then the EVs will comprise 1% of the country's electricity usage. Still not much.

When the number of EVs reaches 10% of the fleet (that would be 25 million, ten times the present number), then they will consume 100 billion kWh. Now we're talking some big numbers, right? Well, it's only 2.5% of the total used for all purposes. Still not tearing-our-hair-out time.

OK, how about when EVs are half of the fleet? That's 125 million of them, and they will suck up 11% of all the electricity we use (now that the EV usage is getting significant in comparison to today's total, we have to add its 0.5 trillion kWh to the 4 trillion we started with, so 0.5/4.5= 11%). That's not to be sneezed at. But we probably have 10+ years before we reach this point. And in the interim the grid gets better, and we expect that there will be lots more solar and wind and who-knows-what to charge the EVs and toast our bread. And EVs will be even more efficient (Google regenerative braking, for one). And, as a nice extra, we already are thinking of using EV batteries to support the grid; no reason to have all that energy just sitting around most of the time.

There will be lots of engineering, and lots of politics and lots of nervous consumers (really, folks, "range anxiety" is a mental problem, not a technical one). But the transition to an all-EV fleet will happen. Our kids will see it.

 

[Bill Pedersen]

There is a great video, The Scary Truth Behind EV's that was on VinWiki Car Stories back in December by Lauren Fix. She’s a Journalist, Race Car driver and Expert in the Auto Industry. In my opinion, it’s well worth watching. It’s 15 minutes long and highly informative.

 

[old round fart]

How much damage will be done to the environment making the batteries? I also understand it takes 400 gallons of oil per month to keep a wind turbine running!

 

[Neshkoro]

If it’s not going to be a problem powering all those electric cars, why do we continue to hear about California continuing to have summer brownouts. Seems that as the e cars numbers increase, there is going to be a greater burden on the power grid out there. What am I missing?

 

[AusBucket]

It's been stated there's no power grid in the world capable of charging cars if they were all EV's. Won't be buying one in my lifetime, by choice!

 

[old round fart]

I’m not buying out of spite! I’ll use my recumbent trike first.

 

[Indycars]

I don't know why Lauren Fix in the video says the batteries are not recyclable ???
If true this would be a Major fallacy in her argument !

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/features/how-do-manufacturers-recycle-ev-batteries
Most companies that specialize in this process claim to be able to recover up to 95 percent of the raw materials, including cobalt, nickel and lithium.

EV Battery Recycling | Union of Concerned Scientists [This is a condensed, online version of the report.]
The complete article can be downloaded by using the link at the bottom.
Widespread battery recycling can create a more stable domestic source of materials for battery production, reduce the demand for raw materials, and minimize the risks of geopolitical disruptions of the supply chain. Assuming 95 percent collection and recovery of the relevant metals as an upper bound, as well as a shift toward low-cobalt and no-cobalt chemistries, the United States could meet about 30 to 40 percent of the anticipated material demand for lithium, nickel, manganese, cobalt, and graphite in passenger BEVs with recycled battery materials by 2035 (Figure 4, p. 6).4
.

 

[PotvinGuy]

If it’s not going to be a problem powering all those electric cars, why do we continue to hear about California continuing to have summer brownouts. Seems that as the e cars numbers increase, there is going to be a greater burden on the power grid out there. What am I missing?

California's power problems have little to do with EVs. There are about 600,000 EVs in CA, which use about 2.4 GWh/yr. The state uses about 280 GWh/yr total, so the EVs account for only about 1% of the energy used. California's grid is old and poorly maintained, and had problems long before EVs existed.

 

[PotvinGuy]

Ms. Fix is out of touch. She ignores the new battery technologies that don't use rare and expensive elements. They are already working in the lab and soon will replace the lithium-ion batteries. And she is just plain wrong about charging at home. EVs can charge from an ordinary 120 or 240 outlet. Now you can upgrade to a charging unit that still runs on 240, but at higher amps; it will charge faster if you so desire. Such a unit will cost a few thousand, including installation.

 

[Neshkoro]

California's power problems have little to do with EVs. There are about 600,000 EVs in CA, which use about 2.4 GWh/yr. The state uses about 280 GWh/yr total, so the EVs account for only about 1% of the energy used. California's grid is old and poorly maintained, and had problems long before EVs existed.

Never the less, adding more EV’s to California won’t improve their already problematic power grid. Only cause more problems!

 

[Spanky]

(Reuters) - During several days of brutal cold in Texas, the city of Austin saw its fleet of 12 new electric buses rendered inoperative by a statewide power outage. That problem will be magnified next year, when officials plan to start purchasing electric-powered vehicles exclusively. The city’s transit agency has budgeted $650 million over 20 years for electric buses and a charging facility for 187 such vehicles. But officials are still trying to solve the dilemma of power interruptions like the Texas freeze.

“Redundancy and resiliency when it comes to power is something we have long understood will be an issue,” said Capitol Metro spokeswoman Jenna Maxfield.

Austin’s predicament highlights the challenges facing governments, utilities and auto manufacturers as they respond to climate change. More electric cars will require both charging infrastructure and much greater electric-grid capacity. Utilities and power generators will have to invest billions of dollars creating that additional capacity while also facing the challenge of replacing fossil fuels with renewable energy sources.

(All it takes is money . . . your money and my money! )

 

[MMC757]

EV's have a lot of problems that all the advocates are basically just looking away from, assuming we will figure it out as we go. We are transitioning "on faith".
As far as utility capacity goes:
I build power plants for a living, I've seen nothing in the last seven years to make me believe we are going to be able to even keep up with our current electrical demand, let alone increase capacity.
Not enough new capacity is being built. Nobody wants nuclear in their backyard. Nobody wants fossil in their backyard. Local governments don't approve permits. The solar panel supply chain is totally broken and incapable of handling the capacity people are wishing for. Wind farms are falling more and more out of favor every year.
And then there's distribution infrastructure. Grids need to be upgraded all the way from the individual home level, up through local, state, and interstate levels. Nobody wants to pay for any of that.
Thats not even getting into the problems with building the number of EV's they think they want...All the automakers are already discovering they can't get enough materials to meet today's demand, let alone the projected demands.

I suspect the chickens will come home to roost in another few years when ignoring reality is no longer possible, and goals will have to be scaled back to some more realistic numbers.

And then there's the oil industry...As long as EV's aren't cutting into OPEC way of life, they don't care. Do not expect the Saudis to sit by idly if we start actually making a dent.

 

[Spanky]

The old saw, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" comes to mind. The current development of the IC engine has brought us an efficiency that was once only a dream. With the abundance of fossil fuel beneath the Earth's surface, why are we rushing headlong into EV's? Let's slow down and allow technology to catch up with electric power production and battery development.

 

[Indycars]

During several days of brutal cold in Texas, the city of Austin saw its fleet of 12 new electric buses rendered inoperative by a statewide power outage.

Now that's kinda ironic, electric buses that can't run because of global warming !

 

[fluidfloyd]

Well imagine this! If it effects Dodge then I would have to assume it will effect every automobile in a like matter. Will put many people on foot. When the US Military tells us it can operate all aircraft, navy ships & water craft, Army tanks, trucks and helicopters then I might consider all electric vehicles are the great saver of the planet. Until then I will be waiting for AL Gore, 3 Purple Heart John Kerry, Air Force One and all space craft to be electrified. Until then all I see are politicians lips moving and that is a pretty good indication they are lying!
The Gas Burner!


https://insideevs.com/news/661549/high-electrification-costs-elephant-in-room-stellantis/

 

[Spanky]

I promise I won't say 'I told you so' . . .

(By Issues & Insights Editorial Board) - History may someday record today as the beginning of the end of the internal combustion engine – and of individual liberty in the U.S.
According to news reports, the EPA is scheduled to release proposed auto emissions standards today on new car sales so stringent that the only way for automakers to meet them would be to shift two-thirds of their fleet to electric.
But wait. How can a regulatory agency do that? Consumers aren’t demanding electric cars. Lawmakers didn’t vote to force them on the public. The Environmental Protection Agency knows better, though, and, unless it’s neutered, plans to force EVs on you – for your own good.
As the Washington Post helpfully explains, “while the rule changes wouldn’t order or require auto companies to sell a certain number of electric vehicles, it would set emissions limits so tightly the only way to comply would be to sell large percentages of EVs.”
To be clear, we are not talking about air pollution. We are talking about emissions of carbon dioxide, which is not a pollutant but which the EPA has assumed the power to regulate.

 

[Edwin Hazzard]

Do any of these tree hugging morons realize that you still need petroleum to produce batteries! The power grid can't handle all electric vehicles...hell the big cities can't handle all the air conditioning units as it is. Most people can't afford to buy an EV...the left doesn't have a clue...or maybe they do