Unable to Fire up Motor

[2old2fast]

What year was this truck? Reason I ask is , there's something about timing that you don't set by moving the dist..... crank trigger ??? Something about electronics. Buddy of mine put a reman. engine in for a customer & had a hell of a time getting it running, was something to do w/electronic timing ????? Truck was mid-90's IIRC

dave

 

[AndyMenon]

where are you located at ? Maybe your close enough to one of us.

I am located in Ashland MA. Zip code 01721 . I hope there is someone close

Thanks much for this train of thought.
Andy

 

[AndyMenon]

and i need a picture of the front of your engine of the timing tab also. A 305 is straight up at 12 o clock and all others are on the side

I will do it at the earliest tomorrow.

 

[AndyMenon]

All I can say is good luck. I once battled something similar on an old flat head V8. After about a month of weekends fiddling with it I ended up giving up and selling the the vehicle cheap...the guy who bought it fiddled with it for about 5 minutes and drove it out of the garage and onto the trailer. That's the only one I was never able to fix

Oh man! But was this a compelling reason enough to sell your ride? Trashing the motor is understandable. But selling your ride???!

I was talking about this issue with my wife this afternoon. And yes, getting a new motor in did cross my mind. But I will never learn from my mistakes if I go down that path or at least without having a reason that would force me to trash the motor.

 

[Duke]

If you have a compression gauge, I would run a compression check. Just to make sure there is no internal problem to cause low compression - tight valves will probably show up as low compression. I know you said the valves are adjusted but Hey, something is wrong. I would also check the spark on each individual spark plug. Also check the spark as it jumps a gap, should be white or blue in color - yellow could indicate low high voltage ( loss wire at coil or bad coil ).

 

[Screaming Metal]

Don't go selling your motor! OK, for a motor to run you have to have 3 things.
1. Compression
2. Spark
3. Fuel.
You have to have ALL of these, the right amounts at the right times. Do it simple.
Always start with the spark. Pull a plug, grab it by the boot, lay it against the head or intake with the key on and the thing in park. Hit your remote starter button. Should have a nice hot blue spark. If its yellow, its too weak. You should hear it pop.Be careful, some of the HEI's can send you to the hospital. I get hit by a vertex mag at least once every 2 months....it still opens my eyes....

Make sure your holes are filled up on your intake with fittings, and vacuum caps, no vacuum leaks. Make sure all vacuum caps are installed on your carb also, especially that big 3/8's on on the rear of the carb base plate.
If a Holley, your idle screws should be in all the way, then back out 1 3/4 to 2 full turns. Make sure the accelerator linkage has play in it, meaning its not being held open.

Pull your drivers side valvecover, bump your motor on #1 TDC , your timing should be close 0 at the harmonic balancer, rotor button should be pointing to #1 plugwire, and the valves on #1 should be closed. You should be on the heal on the intake and exhaust cam lobes.

Now, if you got spark, and you have fuel....unless the rings are left out, it ought to start and run reasonably well to get the timing set, carb set. And those should make the motor run alot better, being adjusted instead of a static setting....

 

[Screaming Metal]

Also, make sure you don't have a crazy cam with a altered firing order. you should be 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 in the correct rotation. Remember, from # 1 plugwire, 8-4-3-6-5-7-2,-in the correct distr. rotation-, TDC, Balance tab set close to 0, both valves completely closed, on the heel of the cam. It should bust off....

Has this motor been opened up since running in that vehicle? Rebuilt? Have you gone thru it, doing a rebuild or a re-ring?

 

[Zandoz]

Oh man! But was this a compelling reason enough to sell your ride? Trashing the motor is understandable. But selling your ride???!

I was talking about this issue with my wife this afternoon. And yes, getting a new motor in did cross my mind. But I will never learn from my mistakes if I go down that path or at least without having a reason that would force me to trash the motor.

Well, that was not the only factor...the vehicle was in a relatives garage 100 miles from where I lived. It was only supposed to be there for one weekend, and after 4 weeks or so I did not want to wear out my welcome. BTW...it was a 1946 Jeep, done up like an old gasser with the 4wd removed, a straight axle on the front, and a 49 flat head V8 with a 3 speed.

 

[Joe-405]

This is the location of a 305 timing tab.....................

 

[AndyMenon]

This is the location of a 305 timing tab.....................

The firing order represents what I have here. In fact the initial pic I sent also indicates that although I took the picture from the P-side. Here it is once more. Also if you look at it closely the boots have been numbered.



About the timing mark, I remember very clearly that when I got the motor, and put in a new Harmonic balancer, and set the crank to TDC, the #1 cylinder had both valves closed indicating compression when sparking.

Also, I remember undoing all the rocker arm nuts, releasing the pressure on the camshaft. And then I aligned the timing marks on the cam shaft and crank before I started adjusting the valves.
But I have to double check the direction in which I rotated the crank when I did it.

Lastly, recalling some of the things I did, I changed all the push rods. This was back in the summer of 2010, quite a while ago.

Thanks much!

 

[AndyMenon]

Well, that was not the only factor...the vehicle was in a relatives garage 100 miles from where I lived. It was only supposed to be there for one weekend, and after 4 weeks or so I did not want to wear out my welcome. BTW...it was a 1946 Jeep, done up like an old gasser with the 4wd removed, a straight axle on the front, and a 49 flat head V8 with a 3 speed.

Aaah! Yeah. Now I see that it made sense under the circumstances.

 

[AndyMenon]

Team,

My phone is not able to post the pictures up here for some reason. I will post them later tonight.

Here are the other confirmations:

1. Cylinder #'s confirmed as in pic above
2. Took the cap off. Distributor rotates Clockwise when cranked.
3. When seen from the front of the car, the motor rotates clockwise when cranked. This is the direction I rotated the crank when adjusting the valves.
   
4. But, the electric choke is abnormally hot for just few moments of cranking ! I almost burnt my fingers trying to touch it!
5. I just cranked the motor 4-5 times with each cranking duration set to less than 10 seconds.
6. Again, this maybe one of the problems, not the problem.

thanks,
Andy

 

[jcunning]

Can you disconnect the electric choke? Maybe it is drawing too much juice.

 

[BRUCE DYDA]

Try this , Set the balencer at 12/15* before top dead center, now adjust the distributor so that the rotor is now facing #1 pole of cap, turn over and see what happens. Without going over the whole thread again, if you set the timing mark on the bal at zero and directed the rotor to #1 you have zero advance or even retarded. motors liked to be fired before the piston reaches the top of stroke.

 

[Dino]

Im just throwing this out there But is it wired up right to the ign switch, fuse block? Sounds like you have fuel, spark.ect

 

[Screaming Metal]

The electric choke is supposed to get hot, theres a bimetal spring in there as it heats up, it opens the choke blade. It doesn't depend on motor temp.....
I would not trust a harmonic balancer, do it the old finger method, then glance at the mark on the balancer and the pointer. If its close, yes, just to get the motor started. If you got spark, and fuel, she ought to start. IF, and I repeat, IF, the valves are adjusted correctly. The lifters have probably leaked down by now. Do you know how to adjust hydraulic lifters? They are different than mechanical lifters.
I'm not gonna spend the time here on the boards telling you how this should be done, look in your repair book for the motor you are using how to do it. This is something you have to careful about, you can mess the valves up if done incorrectly.

Remember, take your time. And do it right. Also, do you have fresh fuel in the tank?
Remember, tdc or about 12 before like bruce said, rotor pointing toward #1 dist. tower w/#1 wire, should be able to squirt a touch of fuel into the carbs throat, and she should light off....if the spark is there and if the valves are adjusted correctly.
Are you running a HEI? What brand? Stock also? Be doubly sure you have a good hot spark!

 

[Screaming Metal]

You mentioned a new Harmonic balance....it isn't a 350 H. B., is it?

 

[T-Test]

Team,

My phone is not able to post the pictures up here for some reason. I will post them later tonight.

Here are the other confirmations:

1. Cylinder #'s confirmed as in pic above
2. Took the cap off. Distributor rotates Clockwise when cranked.
3. When seen from the front of the car, the motor rotates clockwise when cranked. This is the direction I rotated the crank when adjusting the valves.
   
4. But, the electric choke is abnormally hot for just few moments of cranking ! I almost burnt my fingers trying to touch it!
5. I just cranked the motor 4-5 times with each cranking duration set to less than 10 seconds.
6. Again, this maybe one of the problems, not the problem.

thanks,
Andy

Is the distributor grounded internally? Coil wires hooked up correctly from ignition switch/12 volts-negative to distributor? Engine/battery grounded properly? Has the timing gears been changed and installed correctly? Jumped time?

Fuel, fire, compression is all it takes to run, but MUST be done in the correct order. You said it was only firing on #1 cylinder. Are the other wires /plugs firing? If not, then cap/rotor is bad, cracked, or something not working correctly in the distributor. Take cap and rotor off, look at distributor while cranking over and see what you see. Shaft turning, reluctor turning, loose/pinched wires? Hole burned in rotor, cap cracked?

The only thing that I can think of causing it to spit back thru the carb is timing. Refer back to first sentence.

I have cranked many an engine in the bone yard without a carb on it to see if they passed mustard to yank out

 

[AndyMenon]

Can you disconnect the electric choke? Maybe it is drawing too much juice.

Point noted. I will make sure that I yank out the wires when I crank next time.

 

[Mike]

OK, hold the phone, here. You're chasing 87 different problems at one time and that is never going to do anything but frustrate you. The temperature of the bi-metal coil in your automatic choke has absolutely nothing to do with why the engine is backfiring through the carburetor. The backfire can only be caused by incorrect valve timing or incorrect ignition timing, so set all these other issues aside for the time being.

You said this was a running engine, but I also see you mention aligning the marks on the cam and crank gears in Post #30. Which means this wasn't a running engine.

So let's stop rushing headlong, here, and go back to square one.

Did you, in fact, have this engine apart, or did you pull a running engine out of one vehicle and swing it into your T-Bucket, with no other changes?

Or, did you have the engine apart?

The reason I am asking is if you did have the engine apart and you did align the pips on the cam gear and the crank gear (i.e. cam gear mark down and crank gear mark up), then you actually had the #6 cylinder at TDC and ready to fire. So if you installed your distributor at that point, aligning the rotor with the #1 post in the cap, then you were installing it 180° out of phase. Please, pull the #1 spark plug and hold your thumb over the plug hole, whilst rotating the engine to TDC. When compression blows your thumb off, pull the distributor cap and check rotor alignment. If that is correct, then it sounds like you have some valves adjusted too tight,