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Unable to Fire up Motor

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Mike, I think we need to have a Motor Starting check list here for people to print out and check off on, that way we don't have all this shotgun effect stuff going on.
No one would ever read it, so there's no hope there. I've learned to never waste time on lost causes. :coffee:

The bottom line is that only three things can cause an engine to backfire through the intake like that. It is a lean backfire, an intake valve is open when the cylinder is firing, or a cylinder is trying to fire when an intake valve is open. Since he said he has an electric choke and that when it backfires it is spraying raw fuel out of the carb, it doesn't sound like a lean backfire to me. See how quickly the issue can be narrowed down to one of two causes?

Yes, Aunt Polly, it really is just that simple.

But we're rushing about, checking pushrod lengths (shouldn't that have been done before they were installed, helloooo) and re-checking lifter preload which we've previously been assured was already correct. Next thing you know, turn signal fluid level is going to come into play.

Answers to my questions in Post 45 would get us headed in a positive direction. And each one of those questions only requires a simple yes or no answer. How any could be expected to diagnose a problem without any background information is beyond my comprehension.

You know, if the wires to the headlights are not cut to exactly the same length, that can cause an out-of-phase condition that will always cause the rarely-seen number 12 spark plug to fire as if it had a mind of its own. And the length of the fuel line leading from the fuel pump must be a direct inverse of the header primary tube lengths, or we all know what will happen then. Of course that will only happen when the rear passenger door window is rolled up too tight, but you never know...
 
Damn it Ya'll! Just made me laugh and spit coffee all over my computer........My transmission guy is looking at me across my desk, eyebrow raised in the best 'Spock' tradition, just shaking his head....
 
No one would ever read it, so there's no hope there. I've learned to never waste time on lost causes. :coffee:

The bottom line is that only three things can cause an engine to backfire through the intake like that. It is a lean backfire, an intake valve is open when the cylinder is firing, or a cylinder is trying to fire when an intake valve is open. Since he said he has an electric choke and that when it backfires it is spraying raw fuel out of the carb, it doesn't sound like a lean backfire to me. See how quickly the issue can be narrowed down to one of two causes?

Yes, Aunt Polly, it really is just that simple.

But we're rushing about, checking pushrod lengths (shouldn't that have been done before they were installed, helloooo) and re-checking lifter preload which we've previously been assured was already correct. Next thing you know, turn signal fluid level is going to come into play.

Answers to my questions in Post 45 would get us headed in a positive direction. And each one of those questions only requires a simple yes or no answer. How any could be expected to diagnose a problem without any background information is beyond my comprehension.

You know, if the wires to the headlights are not cut to exactly the same length, that can cause an out-of-phase condition that will always cause the rarely-seen number 12 spark plug to fire as if it had a mind of its own. And the length of the fuel line leading from the fuel pump must be a direct inverse of the header primary tube lengths, or we all know what will happen then. Of course that will only happen when the rear passenger door window is rolled up too tight, but you never know...
Mike, I have a Speedglass welding hood, my filter darkens within 1/ 25,000 of a second. We all know that light travels so many miles per second....am I recieving flash before my filter darkens and is this gonna ruin my eyes?:confused::rolleyes::laugh:
 
Well Bruce, as Mike said, we have very little to go on here....a few pics, and a bunch of if's, maybe's, and.... and/or Butts.
Kinda like the Mongoose and the Snake. One was always ragging on the other. Get them on the line, one would always try and melt down the other one down. After that, you always knew one was gonna go up in smoke, just didn't know who. But the fans ate that up.

You gotta bunch of ole school drag mechanics, a few old pros, a bunch of business owners, and a lot of dyed in the wool ole school hotrodders, popping in on occassion to check in and trying to help the less knowing folks out.
I'd say he's off on his quest to hunt down that demon.....probably a toss up between the one that bent the pushrod, or the on that stole the sparks from those 7 other plugs.

Me, I got this nightmare ahead of me, I need to have this big inch nightmare in the dyno cell. This guy wants X Horsepower. On paper, it looks good. He doesn't want to put it on the bottle. He wants X legit horses, reliable, tractable, predictable horses. ????????
Anyway, I told him that when you get so big, and your putting out all this horsepower, tractable it isn't gonna be, to a extent, but thats what he wants. SOOOOO, thats what I gotta give him....
Its gonna be a long night....
 
I want 1,000 streetable horsepower, I want to spend $2,000, don't want any power adders, and I want it by Wednesday. Is that to hard to do? If you can do that for him....... LOL
 
I want 1,000 streetable horsepower, I want to spend $2,000, don't want any power adders, and I want it by Wednesday. Is that to hard to do? If you can do that for him....... LOL
Its a ProComp motor....wish I was able to add a blower and all....I could then get what I need. Over 9oo cubes....he has about that much tied up in his oiling system.
 
Ok. Maybe I was unclear on my communication.
I have new pushrods .none of them are bent Because they are brand new.
This phone is not allowing me to post pictures . But I have confirmed the tdc mark and also this matches with the mark that is on the stock timing cover.
I did set it to tdc today, confirmed that the there is compression in #1 cylinder. Fuel whistling out of the spark plug port is good enough indication.
I will be running similar checks on all other cylinders tomorrow.
Thanks

And no, the distributor is on the back of the engine on the firewall side.not sure how this came about.
 
Is there a rotor button in the distributor? are the rockers adjusted to proper preload? Not over tightened? Is your 12 volt power wire plugged into the battery terminal on the distributor ? Not the tach terminal. And do you have a full 12 volts at distributor positive during cranking if its a HEI dizzy? Have seen only one strong spark and then weak sparks if the distributor doesn't have @ 12 volts during cranking. Check for spark at number 6 cylinder. Distributor may be 180 out of phase. Hope some of this sticks to wall. Good luck.
 
I'd start by backing off all the rocker arms until they're sloppy loose (activating the valves, but sloppy). If it runs in that condition, you've found the problem. If not, you've eliminated the possibility that valve lash is set too tight. Leave the valves like this and go on to the next thing. Double-check the cam/crank relationship. Be sure you're doing it right, and that it's really what you think it is. Now hook up a timing light and check ignition timing. It doesn't have to be perfect, just close (+/- 10 degrees usually won't keep a motor from starting). Not to insult your intelligence, but also double-check to be sure you know which cylinder is #1. I've seen plenty of people waste hours or days after getting this wrong. If ignition looks OK, pull a plug and look at the spark. Connect the ground electrode to the chassis with a clip lead so you don't get shocked. Do this in the shade or at night so you can see the color and intensity of the spark. Be sure to keep the plug away from any source of gas or fumes during this test, including the cylinder you removed it from. Next, be sure the carb is installed correctly with no major air leaks. Don't waste time in this area, just check the basics, including the gasket/adapter under the carb. Try starting the motor with all the vacuum ports plugged, including those that are connected to PVC, vacuum advance, brake booster, etc. If that doesn't help, sub a different carb. Carb problems can be a nightmare if you don't know for sure the carb is the culprit.

It's also worth mentioning that this symptom usually means something very basic to the motor is awry. Valve or spark timing 180 out, carb flooding the motor, weak or intermittent spark, etc. I can't stress this too strongly. I've seen people leave an entire bank of plugs disconnected on a V8 and still start the motor. What you're experiencing is a major failure of a fundamental system. Don't get bogged down in minutia, and don't take anything for granted. Basic troubleshooting will get you out of this.

Jack
 
Aaaaaannnnd, the questions I asked in #45 still remain unanswered. :x3: Common sense seems to have no place in this one, so I am making a strategic withdrawal, rather than killing any more ones and zeroes trying to offer unwanted help.

Screaming Metal, now you can see why the checklist idea would never work. When there is no hope in getting simple, yes or no answers to just three questions, who could we reasonably expect to follow a comprehensive checklist? :rolleyes:
 
Aaaaaannnnd, the questions I asked in #45 still remain unanswered. :x3: Common sense seems to have no place in this one, so I am making a strategic withdrawal, rather than killing any more ones and zeroes trying to offer unwanted help.

Screaming Metal, now you can see why the checklist idea would never work. When there is no hope in getting simple, yes or no answers to just three questions, who could we reasonably expect to follow a comprehensive checklist? :rolleyes:
Damn, this is getting painful.....:coffee:
 
Aaaaaannnnd, the questions I asked in #45 still remain unanswered. :x3: Common sense seems to have no place in this one, so I am making a strategic withdrawal, rather than killing any more ones and zeroes trying to offer unwanted help.

Screaming Metal, now you can see why the checklist idea would never work. When there is no hope in getting simple, yes or no answers to just three questions, who could we reasonably expect to follow a comprehensive checklist? :rolleyes:

Yep I walked away from this one a long time ago.
 
Perhaps this whole post was just a hoax to try and get as much response as possible. If so, he sure has accomplished that.

Jim
 
Thanks so much for all your valuable inputs. The # of pages that this discussion rolled into is a testament to the fact!

That said, I'm not one of those individuals who gives up so easily.
  1. Gentleman, I am happy to report that my ride has fired up!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
  2. My apologies for the size of the text! :unsure::unsure::unsure:
  3. Please don't ban me from the forums. But the font size reflects the magnitude of my happiness! :):):)
  4. I have made a video on my cell phone and will post the YouTube link here as soon as I sync my phone to my laptop.
OK, I have pasted pictures just to make sure that I was right about the way I had set up the cam, and that there was nothing extremely out of whack with the set up . I just could not recall all the details as this was all put together back in 2010. Therefore, I had to retrace my steps and this is what I did:

  • Took off the distributor. Confirmed the position of the timing mark by comparing it with the stock timing cover.
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  • As mentioned in my post #71 yesterday, I made sure that my TDC-position was indeed the compression-ignition stroke.
  • Then, loosened the rocker arm nut for the inlet, and re-tightened the nut 1/2-turn at a time just enough for the push-rod to stop turning, followed by a quick quarter-turn. Further, I made sure that the exhaust valve is closed.
WP_001642.jpg
  • If #1 was at TDC correctly , it means each cylinder in the firing order would hit compression-ignition for every 90-degrees of the crank rotation.
  • Rotated the crank by 90-degrees and repeated the process on each of the inlet valves for each of the cylinders in the firing order 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 .
  • Reinstalled the distributor pointing to the #1 cylinder and cranked it. It fired up instantly! :thumbsup:
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Cheers!
Andy
 
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Perhaps this whole post was just a hoax to try and get as much response as possible. If so, he sure has accomplished that.

Jim

I just saw your response. I am not sure what this means. A guy such as me does not need cheap things such as a hoax to get responses. Maybe some low-esteemed losers who don't have what it takes to shoot straight, not to forget the attention seekers need crap like that!

Besides, I do not wish to waste other people's time. For the last 3 or so years, I've visited this forum to consult people only when I know I absolutely have to. I am not on Twitter, not on Facebook because I simply do not have time to see what people on the Internet have to say about me , nor do I socialize in the virtual world.

You know me for as many years as my project has been in progress Jim. Don't make it personal. I would appreciate it that we stay on topic and that would be very much welcome.

And for my delay in response, I help my wife run her business and I have to divide my time appropriately.

Thanks and I apologize for the color of the font and if this thread has dragged itself across one too many pages. But again, if building a car was that easy, every loser or hoaxer (in the words of Jim) would be putting one together and driving around.


Andy
 
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