Worried about frame strength

[medic0079]

Hey guys long time lurker first time poster. I have a tbucket that my dad bought back in 1990. he bought it with the intention of a father son project that never happened. it originally had a 327 chevy motor, and the rear end/front end was from a 55 chevy. long story short I got it back from him and want to finish it. I pulled off the body and got it mostly to the frame. the problem I have is the frame seems very weak. I can grab the fenders and torque the frame back and forth with minimal effort. it seems to flex at the rear frame connector most. is this normal for these? can it be braced somehow?
pics are in this photobucket album
http://photobucket.com/tbucket
thanks a bunch for the advise.
Noah

 

[madmike8]

I'm no expert... Really I'm just a couple clicks above idiot... But that kinda looks like an original T frame to me. I hear they are pretty weak for modern power... Maybe Youngster or someone with more knowledge will chime in...

 

[donsrods]

Yep, that is an original model T frame. I'm sure I will catch some flack for this comment, but IMO a model T frame is only good under a stock model T or a model T Speedster. Even boxed they are way too old and flimsy for a T bucket with modern hp. Take that frame and use it as a model to build a new one out of 2 x 3 tubing with either a 1/8 or 3/16 wall thickness. You will end up with less work in it doing it that way and a better foundation for your hot rod too.

Post some pictures of the rest of it, I would like to see what they did.

Don

 

[RPM]

I call them 20/20 frames. Good for 20 hp and 20 mph. A great frame in its day for a model T , but not for a modern hot rod. Either buy or build a frame like has been suggested.

 

[Youngster]

I agree with Don and Ron. That stock frame just isn't suitable for use under a T bucket. You could probably find a T guy down there who would love to have it though. I don't know what your skill level is but a replacement tube frame is pretty easy to build. You will want to replace that stock T front end too. It's too weak to be safely run with a SBC. What year did they claim it to be?

Ron

 

[medic0079]

I added some more (better) pics to the album they said it was a 55 chevy front end/rear end IDK much about the older cars so im not 100% sure about any of it. I know it has a 10 bolt rear end and having never rebuilt one of those I'm jumping into a project in that alone. I talked to Ron Pope (thanks a bunch for the info) and will be replacing the frame. I'm hopping that the front end does not also need to be replaced. I will be switching to a disk setup ASAP as it is all drum right now. is the front end not a 55? again thanks for the info.
Noah

 

[Youngster]

No that's not a '55 Chebby front end. It's probably a '23 to '27 model t front axel assembly. As such it was designed for a car whos top speed down hill with a tailwind was 35 - 40 mph. Please look for a replacement.

Ron

 

[bentbaggerlen]

Are you planing on keeping the full fenders? My T will be running full fendered And uses the stock T body mounts. If your car still has any wood in the floors replace it with steel, weld it in place and will do wonders to stiffen the body up. I went with a frame from another vendor on this sight, but if Ron can supply you a frame that will fit your needs go with Ron, and yes you really need to replace the front axle and suspension. It's a pretty big nut,but just get it all at one time if you can. Then every thing will fit. That's how I went about mine

Yea I know it's not a bucket... But It has Heat and AC This was its first drive...
http://s1108.photobucket.com/albums/h403/Len_Bent/?action=view&current=DSCN19631.mp4
If your interested here you can find photos of my frame here
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h403/Len_Bent/DSCN0346.jpg

 

[medic0079]

yea I'm looking into replacement front ends, and prob will just end up buying frame/front end from Ron (I have to wait till next paycheck then I should have an extra 10 grand or so...) hahaha kidding. I talked to him on the phone today, and it seems as though It will be very difficult to keep this as original as I want to and remain safe so I'm going to have to compromise on a few things, but better safe than antique right... Thanks a bunch for all your advise I appreciate it!

 

[madmike8]

Just in case your wondering... I bought my frame and suspension parts from Ron... I'm very happy with my parts, and Ron's patience in dealing with all my questions... Great Guy!

 

[donsrods]

The one thing that has become very clear to me from knowing Ron Pope on various forums is that he is an extremely honest businessman who will go out of his way to help a fellow rodder whether he is going to make a sale out of it or not. I have seen testimonial after testimonial from satisfied customers and have yet to see one complaint about anything he sells or does. If we didn't make most of our own stuff I would be a customer of his without question.

You will be in good hands with Ron.

Don

 

[BLUEGRASST]

X 2 on Ron Pope.

 

[Mr T Bucket]

Those back tires are awesome!!!!

 

[medic0079]

Ill sell them to ya... cheapish I need frame $$

 

[donsrods]

I've been staring at the pictures in your Photobucket for a while now, and to be honest with you, I can't identify a lot of the parts that were used to build this car. The steering box seems to be Mustang, circa 1968 or thereabouts, but I have NEVER seen that front axle in my life. It almost looks like it is upside down. The confusing thing to me is that the brake setup and spindles seem to be 49-54 Chevy, but to my knowledge, Chevy never used a single spring setup like the Fords did. Either someone modified a Chevy axle with spring perch holes or it might be another car brand axle that was modified to use Chevy spindles. It is really puzzling to me.

But I have to give you the Dutch Uncle talk here. I really see almost nothing in those pictures that is savable. The whole drivetrain is really a cobbled up mess. I know that might be unkind to say, but I say it to try to help you. Whoever built it took a lot of shortcuts . If it were me , I would scrap everything you have there, build or buy a proper frame, and also change out the suspension to something more commonly done. You might be able to save the front brake setup and spindles and buy an axle that uses the 49-54 Chevy kingpins. But aside from that, you would never be happy with the end results if you didn't start over completely.

Sorry to be so direct, but I just have to be honest with you.

Don

 

[Youngster]

The front axel appears to be a T with Chebby kingpin bosses welded to it. Don's right about the steering box, "64 to "68 Mustang.

Ron

 

[donsrods]

Ya know, Ron, I think you are right about that axle, now that I look at it closer. I've never really had much experience with T front axles so it looked odd to me.

Don

 

[Youngster]

That style axel was used on several different maquies in the ealy teens but they all used the T type spindles. The Overland chassis I bought last fall has one with quarter eliptics both front and rear.

Ron

 

[medic0079]

Yea right now I am planning on new frame/front end. the only things I'm planning on reusing at this point is the rear end (prob have to replace some suspension parts, and I'm going to rebuild diff/replace brake components.) and the steering box itself I was hoping to reuse as it feels tight, and seems to work. obviously the turtle deck, and body I hope to reuse, and the rims I would also like to reuse if possible. I would like to find a way to mount the fenders, but I think that in and of itself would be a project keeping them on the car at speed so I'm not convinced that is going to be possible without lots of reinforcement. the lighting system is obviously old, but I hope to keep the lights if I can make them bright enough to function. the windshield is original model T and will for obvious reasons have to be replaced. the radiator is original Model T, and I'm sure it will not provide enough cooling for a 350 so I doubt it will stay either. do you guys think that the steering box will have to be replaced also? or just front suspension and steering components? also as far as the rear end can I reuse the suspension spring or will that need to be replaced or modified? thanks again
Noah

 

[donsrods]

There was a time when the Mustang boxes were the hot setup, especially in larger frames like model A's and 32's, but they are pretty big and the arm points up instead of down. They worked best with four bar front ends because the draglink would run parallel to the four bars. IMO there are much more compact and better boxes like the reversed Corvair or the Flaming River knock off Corvair to use for a T. Yes, you could use that one, but there are some good reasons not to, I think. As you can see in your pictures, the Mustang box sits way down under the frame too.

Don