Front panhard bar Yes or No
- Thread starter putz
- Start date
der Spieler
Member
Here's a builders tip from the 2009 issue of the Speedway catalog. Take it for what it's worth. I had a 4-bar on my T and I had cross-steering so I had a Panhard rod.
4-Bar Needs a Panhard
"There is some controversy surrounding the use of a Panhard rod on cross spring drop axle suspension systems. While there are many hotrods running around without one most of the top chassis builders feel that it is a necessary part of a front suspension, especially with a 'our-bar. With an original buggy spring and wishbone setup, the triangle shape of the wishbone limited side to side motion. Even a split ,vishbone or radius rod front end with the axle mounting points wider than the frame mounting points provides some measure of triangulation to help control side motion. By its design, the four-bar front end is engineered to allow the front suspension to travel freely providing better ride quality and handling characteristics) but it can not control side to side motion. The problem is compounded by cross-steering, as any side to side movement will cause bump steer. A Panhard rod should be considered mandatory on all 4-bar systems, and recommended on all cross-steer systems. The bar is normally mounted to the frame on the drivers side and to the axle/batwing on the passenger" side. It should run parallel to the drag link so as not to induce bump steer."
4-Bar Needs a Panhard
"There is some controversy surrounding the use of a Panhard rod on cross spring drop axle suspension systems. While there are many hotrods running around without one most of the top chassis builders feel that it is a necessary part of a front suspension, especially with a 'our-bar. With an original buggy spring and wishbone setup, the triangle shape of the wishbone limited side to side motion. Even a split ,vishbone or radius rod front end with the axle mounting points wider than the frame mounting points provides some measure of triangulation to help control side motion. By its design, the four-bar front end is engineered to allow the front suspension to travel freely providing better ride quality and handling characteristics) but it can not control side to side motion. The problem is compounded by cross-steering, as any side to side movement will cause bump steer. A Panhard rod should be considered mandatory on all 4-bar systems, and recommended on all cross-steer systems. The bar is normally mounted to the frame on the drivers side and to the axle/batwing on the passenger" side. It should run parallel to the drag link so as not to induce bump steer."
der Spieler
Member
I'll take Speedway's word for it. I had cross-steering and I can see where the sideways movement of the drag link could upset the front end without a panhard bar.
Chris@whiterhino
New Member
The pan hard bar is used to locate the axle in a straight link 4 link, or 3 link setup. If you have a double trianglated 4 link they the link locate your axle where they need to be. If you have the room for a double trianglated 4 link that is you better option but a panhard bar isn't a bad thing. And for hot roads you don't have to worry about axle arch so much because you don't flex like we do.
T-Odd
Member
My Spirit chassis came with front panhard installed. I drove the crap outta the car for a few years and then one day going 20mph down a residential street in Memphis, hit a bump and broke one of the heims on the front panhard bar.
Took a bungee cord and tied it up and make it the 1/4 mile to the event, undid the panhard and have never noticed ANY difference at all in the ride.
Theory shows the front panhard should remove that 1/8" of side to side movement allowed by the spring shackles. Do I feel it? Nope. And I drive my bucket like JEHU!
(for those that don't understand look up 2 Kings 9:20)
Took a bungee cord and tied it up and make it the 1/4 mile to the event, undid the panhard and have never noticed ANY difference at all in the ride.
Theory shows the front panhard should remove that 1/8" of side to side movement allowed by the spring shackles. Do I feel it? Nope. And I drive my bucket like JEHU!
(for those that don't understand look up 2 Kings 9:20)
I'll chime in. I run a front panhard on my car. I do believe they are needed. On a typical transverse spring front end, the spring is attached to the axle with shackles on each end. The shackles are nothing more than a hinge. With a hinge on both ends, the axle will shift. The reason a panhard bar is recommended with cross steer is that the steerring forces will cause the axle to shift sideways. So the simple fact that Everyone is agreeing with using one on cross steer set ups, shows that Everyone agrees the axle is capable of shifting sideways. Now apply just a little common sense.... If you can exert enough force by turning your steering wheel, to cause the axle to shift sideways, don't you think the forces from turning at speed will too ? Yes they will. And to add to it, you also have the stored energy from the spring, being released. A good bump, and fast turn, can make for a wild ride. A panhard bar is a very simple item to install. And all the hype about it shifting the axle itself because it moves in an arc is just BS. Yes the bar does move in an arc, but with a moderate length bar, and the small amount of travel these cars have, the arc is small, and is controlled. Unlike the loading/ unloading of the shackles and spring in mid-turn.
"The Bat" out of hell
Member
Well saidLKE said:
,I'd like add for others why some "Get away with out a panhard bar or don't;" Other then pure luck!There are rezens, it can work with out,one is if the two spring end shackles are at about 45* or flatter and all other things rite,this is more like they were designed to hang,vs many hot rods were the spring is too long for mounts or loaded so much that it has flatend out and become so long that now the shackles are hanging down below 45*=axle can now EZ move from side to side from frame of car swinging with shackles.
Also even if shackle are to low,a very well mounted front shocks that are fairly strong can keep out some shake if there layed over 20+* to the center.
The other factors are tire balance and run out/plus off set of rims.
So some will say they don't need a front bar,just cus it seems to work OK for them and has not yet had enough things acting wrong at the same time to do a deth wobble. Better to have a bar,or use a dead perch on one side[I like that best my self],then have it give ya a bad time at the wrong time.
If these PAHARD bars are so impotant why didnt Henry Ford or the other car makers put them in?I had a couple problems with a bounce in the front took off the friction shocks and put hydraulic and have not had a bit of problems i think you guys are WAY over enginering things.Every one has an opinion but are they based in true fact?Maybe maybe not but for the most part that bar IS NOT NEEDED!!
T-Odd
Member
I'll probably put mine back on, but I noticed no difference in the ride. I don't recall seeing one on Toolman's bucket and he's got damn near 350,000 miles or so on the clock... keeping in mind his front end has been changed out a couple of times when people have run him over.
Not saying it's safe or not safe, I think it's a good idea to have one. I didn't remove mine until after it broke. Still drove the same to me. Like I said, I'll probably put it back on, just for the peace of mind that it's there.
Not saying it's safe or not safe, I think it's a good idea to have one. I didn't remove mine until after it broke. Still drove the same to me. Like I said, I'll probably put it back on, just for the peace of mind that it's there.
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