Fuel delivery recommendation needed

[prairiepegger]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum and looking forward to gaining a lot of knowledge. I'm am building a 23 TB and I'm currently in the process of laying out the fuel line plan.
I'm using a late model 5,0 liter ford now carb converted. I like the idea of regulating the fuel pressure but am not fond of return lines. My question is, do I need a return line or do they make fuel pumps that can be regulated without a return?
Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

[old round fart]

You are over thinking this! Old timey stuff like carbs don't need return lines. The float closes the needle and seat which closes off fuel flow. If you use a stock fuel pump no problem. With an electric pump you may need a regulator.

 

[prairiepegger]

You are over thinking this! Old timey stuff like carbs don't need return lines. The float closes the needle and seat which closes off fuel flow. If you use a stock fuel pump no problem. With an electric pump you may need a regulator.

Thanks for the reply. Your right, I probably am overthinking it - just one of my flaws. I Keep forgetting that carbs regulate. My concern is that I have a Mr Gasket GP105 that is internally set at 9 psi and if I bypass the regulator, would the pressure create havoc to the internal parts of the carb? I don't mind purchasing another unit internally set at 5 psi if I can just stay away from the return line. Thanks again for the input.

 

[Indycars]

It depends on your goals for the car!

If you want great performance at 5000 rpm and above, then the return style system will outperform the internal regulated system. They make electric pumps with an internal pressure regulator, but that's the pressure at the pump not at the carb, so it all depends on how many turns, 90° elbows etc that you use between the pump and carb.

So if you just want a nice cruiser, then you should be just fine.

This one is internal regulated at 7 psi, that gives you about 2 psi pressure drop on the way to the carb.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-801-1

$115

 

[2old2fast]

Holley , mallory , aero-quip , etc , all make dead-head no return line regs that you can set to whatever pressure you want , carbs , in general , like about 5-7 psi ...
dave

 

[Golly]

Most good brands have a "street" version that is self regulating. Just run a good , full size filter before the pump, a 3/8" line with decent hose fittings, NOT 90 degree hardware store fittings They reduce flow something terrible. If you don't want to deal with AN aluminum fittings , most good hose shops have push lock style hose fittings in steel or brass. That should be plenty for a good running small block.
PS. make sure to mount the pump on some rubber mounts, as electric pumps can make a bit of noise.

 

[ellis8500]

I had the one shown by Indycars...very loud. Louder than engine noise when driving 30 mph. Got one of these and it is quiet. Can get 4 psi which Edelbrock recommends and 7 psi. 25 gph flow capacity which is more than enough for a street cruiser. At 15 mpg, 60 mph only using 4 gph. Plenty of capacity for WOT acceleration.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts /hly-12-426/overview/

 

[prairiepegger]

Thanks everyone ! You have been very helpful. My next question is, does the line have to hug the rail or can I run it where room is available. I am thinking about putting a battery holder on the rail where the fuel line was going to run but there will be no room in this location. I'm going with a low profile Odyssey 680 battery.

 

[railroad]

Not required, but a good practice to put the battery and fuel line on opposite sides, or maybe that is just me.

 

[Zandoz]

I had the one shown by Indycars...very loud. Louder than engine noise when driving 30 mph. Got one of these and it is quiet. Can get 4 psi which Edelbrock recommends and 7 psi. 25 gph flow capacity which is more than enough for a street cruiser. At 15 mpg, 60 mph only using 4 gph. Plenty of capacity for WOT acceleration.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts /hly-12-426/overview/

View attachment 11287

This thread got me looking at fuel pumps yesterday, and this one is the one that I decided would be likely to fit my needs...but I was left with a few questions that maybe you can answer.

How far from the tank can the pump be mounted? I had hoped to mount the pump low on the firewall, just above the frame rail. I am trying to make as much as possible on this car easily accessible from my wheel chair. Also, with mounting my rear lights on the back of the body, I was hoping to eliminate the need for any wiring going to the rear, outside of the body.

From what I saw, the recommended mounting orientation is at a 45 degree angle, clockwise /. Will they work mounted at a 45 degree angle counter clockwise \ ? My second choice for location would be on the front side of the rear crossmember. The counter clockwise orientation would be needed to get the fuel line running down the passenger side frame rail, with minimum bends.

 

[2old2fast]

Mount as close to the tank as possible , these are pushers not pullers........below the fuel level is best , run a relay at the pump to insure adequate power..
dave

 

[ellis8500]

Mount below the tank, near the tank. I used a metal plate mounted to the frame rail. These pumps use just a few amps [3 amp fuse shown in instructions]. Relay not needed. I mounted mine vertical with right angle plumbing elbows so I could put in same location as the pump I replaced. On a new install I'd probably do it a bit different.

 

[Zandoz]

Mount below the tank, near the tank. I used a metal plate mounted to the frame rail. These pumps use just a few amps [3 amp fuse shown in instructions]. Relay not needed. I mounted mine vertical with right angle plumbing elbows so I could put in same location as the pump I replaced. On a new install I'd probably do it a bit different.

It sounds like I'll have to go with the rear crossmember location. The problem I see is that it will put the pump directly under the fuel tank...which seems dangerous. But there is no place back there, on a level lower than the tank, that is not under the tank <shrug>

Do you have a guestimate of the foot print dimensions of the pump? Do you see any problems mounting at a 45 degree counter clockwise angle \ ?

 

[mountainman]

It sounds like I'll have to go with the rear crossmember location. The problem I see is that it will put the pump directly under the fuel tank...which seems dangerous. But there is no place back there, on a level lower than the tank, that is not under the tank <shrug>
\ ?

If you think that "seems dangerous", what if someone suggested putting the pump IN the fuel tank? Oh wait.....already been done a few million times.

 

[Zandoz]

If you think that "seems dangerous", what if someone suggested putting the pump IN the fuel tank? Oh wait.....already been done a few million times.

I hear ya, but that has always made me nervous to. I've never known the advantage in that configuration. An electrical spark inside a fuel tank was the root of Apollo 13's problems

 

[T-Test]

It sounds like I'll have to go with the rear crossmember location. The problem I see is that it will put the pump directly under the fuel tank...which seems dangerous. But there is no place back there, on a level lower than the tank, that is not under the tank <shrug>

Do you have a guestimate of the foot print dimensions of the pump? Do you see any problems mounting at a 45 degree counter clockwise angle \ ?

Mount it to the side frame rail. Make an offset bracket if you have to on the angle going up so it will be lower than the tank outlet.

 

[2old2fast]

In tank pumps are used because they are high pressure pumps that generate a lot of heat ,being submerged in fuel keeps them cool..... they are securely grounded so there's no risk of spark , even if they were to spark , the raw fuel won't ignite..... I suppose you could dream up a "once in a lifetime , billion to one , doomsday scenario" where you could possibly cause ignition ,, but w/ literally millions of these pumps in use since about 1987 , it's not something most are concerned with..
dave

 

[RPM]

In tank pumps are used because they are high pressure pumps that generate a lot of heat ,being submerged in fuel keeps them cool..... they are securely grounded so there's no risk of spark , even if they were to spark , the raw fuel won't ignite..... I suppose you could dream up a "once in a lifetime , billion to one , doomsday scenario" where you could possibly cause ignition ,, but w/ literally millions of these pumps in use since about 1987 , it's not something most are concerned with..
dave

Actually earlier than 1987, I can remember Chevy Vegas had in tank pumps.

 

[Zandoz]

Yeah, I suppose they're safe enough, but being the poster boy for Murphy's Law I try to avoid tempting fate too often. LOL

I've given it more thought, and it seems to me that the best place to put the pump will be at the top of the passenger side kick-up, at a 45 degree angle towards the front. That way a 90 degree elbow out of the top will point the line straight down the kick-up, and a 45 degree elbow on the bottom will run the filter parallel to the frame. Also it would put the pump lower than the tank, and only about a foot from the tank outlet.

 

[railroad]

Something you might want to consider, I put a cut off valve coming out of the tank and a toggle switch on the pump. You can wire it for off, on with key, on with switch. If you feel you need a safety switch you can wire it through an oil pressure switch. No pressure no fuel pump running. For carbed cars there is usually enough fuel in the bowls to get it up and going and if not you have the manual switch to prime everything up.