milky oil

[insomniacshotrods]

Well its been 2 yrs since i started the blower motor project. After 1 junk pro-comp coil ,and a junk pro-comp ready to run distributor ,a hairline crack on the starter and countless dollars the engine finally started and ran. Now on to the latest problem, seeping engine studs. I paid a guy who builds race engines 500 bucks to do it and im sure he used sealant on the threads ,even i know to do that. Just figured after setting that long maybe it would seal up after getting warmed up. So far it hasnt and im afraid ill hurt the bearings if i keep running engine with coolant mixed in. I was wondering what to do? Run it some more and see if it seals? Pull out 1 stud at a time and reseal and reinstall? The thought of tearing my topend off and having to redo all that is really depressing and makes me just want to say to heck with it till next year. Im so sick of having problems on this thing. Ive got a car show i kinda wanted to have it ready for in October,but the joys of working on it are getting hard to find. Thanks

 

[GT63]

Well its been 2 yrs since i started the blower motor project. After 1 junk pro-comp coil ,and a junk pro-comp ready to run distributor ,a hairline crack on the starter and countless dollars the engine finally started and ran. Now on to the latest problem, seeping engine studs. I paid a guy who builds race engines 500 bucks to do it and im sure he used sealant on the threads ,even i know to do that. Just figured after setting that long maybe it would seal up after getting warmed up. So far it hasnt and im afraid ill hurt the bearings if i keep running engine with coolant mixed in. I was wondering what to do? Run it some more and see if it seals? Pull out 1 stud at a time and reseal and reinstall? The thought of tearing my topend off and having to redo all that is really depressing and makes me just want to say to heck with it till next year. Im so sick of having problems on this thing. Ive got a car show i kinda wanted to have it ready for in October,but the joys of working on it are getting hard to find. Thanks

Have you tried re-torqueing the head bolts?

 

[RPM]

Bum, beg, barrow or steal a radiator pressure tester!. Then pull the valve covers and pressure test the cooling system to see if it is a head stud that is leaking. It might be and then it might not be the head studs. If it is a stud it might only be one and you could double nut it and remove it then reseal. Hope it is a real easy fix for ya.

 

[ruggs]

Bum, beg, barrow or steal a radiator pressure tester!. Then pull the valve covers and pressure test the cooling system to see if it is a head stud that is leaking. It might be and then it might not be the head studs. If it is a stud it might only be one and you could double nut it and remove it then reseal. Hope it is a real easy fix for ya.

I try to keep my mouth shut but, That is some good logical advice. Remember,It's the little things that kill.......Hope RPM is right.......Ron (ruggs)

 

[Ted Brown]

An older friend years back told me to just run water till I find that every thing is all sealed up, because anti-freeze will mess things up and it will find a leak if there is one anywhere... Strange stuff, coolant additives... Good Luck with finding your leak.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Do as Ron said....check for coolant leak....16 PSI.....any higher you might hurt a radiator.

If your running studs, alot of folks don't know how to correctly install these. You have to tap and clean all your stud holes in the block. I mean clean then, with a brush next...blow them out.
Now, with your studs, make sure they screw in nice and smooth. After all that is checked, you can start installing them with the loctite. Follow your directions.
Now your studs in, loctited, your heads on, now, for a important component alot of folks fail on. The Hardened washers, IF, your running aluminum heads. On cast heads, depends on the kit and who made them. If no washers, squirt a little oil on the threads close to the head, and put some on the the threads on the studs. THIS is essential for accurate torque readings!!!!

I always torque the sequence 3 times....1st time @ 20-lbs, 2nd @ 40-lbs, 3rd at final torque.
Then I let everything sit there a while, then retorque to check. On new studs....you'll have some thread and stud stretch, depending on the torque.
After the Motor is runned for about 30 to 45 minutes....RETORQUE THE HEAD NUTS!!!!


Crank the motor and let her run. About 10 minutes into the run, leaving your radiator cap off, look down into the radiator....if you got bubbles in the fluid and the coolant is really hot...you've got a seeping head gasket. With your valvecovers off....(I've got some valvecovers with the tops cut out for just such purposes)....look at your nuts and studs....put your cap on now, pressure should build up pretty quick now.
If your leaking, you'll see some moisture at the base of the nuts holding your heads down.

Now, you do know if you don't have enough crankcase ventilation going on, your gonna have a milkshake appearence on your dipstick; do you?
If your oil looks fine on the dipstick and everything above the oil looka all milky....its a PVC problem. If Oil is floating on top of some water, in-the-pan,....you've got a internal leak, whether it be studs, a cracked head or block or whatever...

Remember, when you are pressure testing....not to go overly high on pressure. Air will find leaks that water can't get thru...

Hope this helps...

 

[Screaming Metal]

Ted is 100% right....antifreeze will spin a bearing in a heartbeat if the mess gets into the oil system....its good as a coolant...ain't-worth-a-dawm at lubrication!!!

 

[insomniacshotrods]

It is definitely the head studs seeping , i had the valve cover off making sure i had the timing right and it had antifreeze in the head and also on the outside headbolts i can see it coming up around some of the studs. I used permetex 2 sealer on head studs before with no problems but i dont know what he used on this one. What do you use on studs? I noticed a couple days after i put in the antifreeze and before i got it running that it was seeping alittle by the back head. But now i see it by the head studs. I dont even know what to torque to. arp studs are all i remember lol.. anyway thanks guys .

 

[insomniacshotrods]

It is definitely the head studs seeping , i had the valve cover off making sure i had the timing right and it had antifreeze in the head and also on the outside headbolts i can see it coming up around some of the studs. I used permetex 2 sealer on head studs before with no problems but i dont know what he used on this one. What do you use on studs? I noticed a couple days after i put in the antifreeze and before i got it running that it was seeping alittle by the back head. But now i see it by the head studs. I dont even know what to torque to. arp studs are all i remember lol.. anyway thanks guys . I am not running a pvc, a guy told me not too with the blower and i have no idea if im supposed to or not..guess i need to.

 

[RPM]

You never really said what engine it is, but assuming it is a small block Chevy. The head bolts torque to 65 ft lbs. I use Teflon sealer on the head bolts and studs, the kind in a tube, not the tape. I am pretty sure that is what ARP recommends also.

If you have to pull a stud out of the block, don't forget to drain the block.

 

[Indycars]

You have to tap and clean all your stud holes in the block. I mean clean then, with a brush next...blow them out.
Now, with your studs, make sure they screw in nice and smooth. After all that is checked, you can start installing them with the loctite. washers, IF, your running aluminum heads. On cast heads, depends on the kit and who made them. If no washers, squirt a little oil on the threads close to the head, and put some on Follow your directions.
Now your studs in, loctited, your heads on, now, for a important component alot of folks fail on.

I was just reading about this last night in this book. The author said to torque the head before the Loctite setup, do you see this as important??? Do I really need to rush and get the head on and torqued??? Would you still use Loctite in a blind hole, I'm thinking about the Dart SHP block, none of the head bolts go thru to the water jacket, so would it still be important to use Loctite???

Would you use Loctite on studs for the mains also???

 

[RPM]

If you go to the ARP site and look at page 40. It the lower right corner it gives a lot of advice on installing the studs. ARP even says to use a sealer in the water to help seal things up.

 

[Indycars]

If you go to the ARP site and look at page 40. It the lower right corner it gives a lot of advice on installing the studs. ARP even says to use a sealer in the water to help seal things up.

Thanks Ron!!! I guess that's a big fat YES to torquing before they setup!

 

[Screaming Metal]

OK...Rons right...whne you have holes into the water jackets....which some motors do...use teflon sealant. But I always put those studs in so they don't move when I torque them.
Reason why I use loctite, is because when you got a stud trying to slowly creep and turn as you torque your head down, this affects torque readings. In effect, affects head gasket seal.

Now, on your studs, when you tear your motor down for a rebuild, I hate nothing more than having a stud back out. The more twisting and stretching of the threads in your block, the more chance your gonna have a screwup on your head gasket and the more stress you put into your deck surface, possibly starting a crack....

Regardless of my fab'ing and welding guru status out there, My main stick is a EngineBuilder. I've run studs in everything concieveable. I was running studs before studs became cool...simply because I won't have to fish the heads around and scratch the piss outta things on the heads trying to stab the dowelpins on the blocks deck surface. Studs are stronger, will last longer, more resistant to loosening under vibration. Better alignup going on, don't have have to worry about dropping one on my foot. AND you don't have to worry about putting the wrong bolt in the wrong hole and pulling the threads out becuase you only got 2 1/2 threads of that bolt in the hole....torque it down, and yank the threads out. OUCH!!!!

Once you put them all in...when you rebuild your motor, all you gotta worry about is the nuts and/or washers. My 392 has studs on the mains, on the block decks, I've got studs on the trans mounting holes and oil pan. When I rebuild, I'll just throw some rubber gas line over the threads and rebuild her. And studs speed you up on reassembly.

ARP studs are good, but regardless of the kits you get, whenever you try to first put your heads or mains on....its best to have a lead or brass mallet handy for your first lineup. After that, everything should just slide together...you'll have to tap a few of those studs around to hit the center of the holes perfectly...

 

[Screaming Metal]

And before anything is implied or guessed upon....I mean put the studs into the block, 2 to 3 drops of loctite on the threads, a stud installer to jam nuts on studs, screw them all the way in and back then out 1 1/2 turns, and let your locktite set up.

Reason for this is because if your torquing things down and you see your stud start to turn, somethings wrong on your threads on the top there. Plus, if you twist one off, it'll make it easier to remove since it isn't jammed out into the bottom of the hole.

Then on your assembly, drops your heads and mains on, a few drops on oil on the treads and its torquein' time! No locktite on the nuts. If your worried about vibration there...you need to check for some superserious tire shake goin on or you need to safety wire things...

 

[one finger john]

S.M., I have always installed studs finger tight (maybe 6-10 lbs at most), what do you torque them to? Also, what is the purpose of the lead mallet (explain process)? Do you install heads first (with dowels) then studs? On mains, do you align them first with bolts , then replace with studs (trying to keep from align honing or boring)?

Thanks, always like to learn something new or different, John

 

[Screaming Metal]

John, sometimes on the tapped holes in the blocks, toward the bottom of the holes, theres a taper from the wear on the taps at the factory. It'll get a little snug before bottoming out. I usually stop before that, I do the jamnuts to keep from tearing my fingers up on the threads, first touch of getting snug, I either stop there or back off just a touch.

I always run bottoming taps, H-3's into the holes, with a low pressure impact made especially for that purpose. On Racing motors only, I'll run a H-4 tap into the holes whick ever-so-lightly barley shaves the threads in the hole. Now those I will put in linger tight, with loctite.
On all others, I bottom tap the holes, b;ow them out with compressed air, then run a rifle bore brush into the hole with some kerosene, spin a little to clean out any giblets, then blow it out. Then, stud in, firmly bottom it out by hand, then back it out 1 1/2 turns.
I have actually poped the bottom of the tapped hole out on high milage well seasoned motors being drafted for drag motor purposes, by putting 10 lbs of torque into the bottom of the hole with a stud, causing water leaks, cracks and the like.
I have gone as far as making small 'doughballs' of JBWeld, dropping them into the holes before studding to help with this...

Like some of the tractor pullers...the're running 28 to 1 compression on a diesel motors, + 20 someodd psi of boost on top of that, multiple motors putting out a bunch o horses...Blocks can do all sorta strange things when applying alot of horses.

A top fuel motor has almost 850 horses per cylinder. With a alum block and heads....these motors move and flex all over the place. The best we can do is control where the flex is occurring and when....not if they are gonna flex. That muck power, somethings gotta move or break. And alot of it is in the stud regions of the motors...

 

[Screaming Metal]

Yes, after the block is prepped, the 2 dowels in the block deck, put the heads on, engaging the dowels, screwing the studs in, but not permantely yet.
Then, I try to remove the head. Usually theres at least 2 studs that your gonna have to 'tap' with your 'soft' hammer to get the stud to where it doesn't drag coming off the studs. I refer to them as love taps...only takes a tap or 2 to move it some. After it will slide on and off without fighting...everything is as it should be.

I stud alot of motors in a months time...Sometimes under production at the factory, the'll have a drill get dull and it'll walk just a little, then a tap might get a little dull too. Then you got a hole thats still within spec...but when you got 8 ot 10 studs sticking up above the deck surface of a block 5 or 6 inches....it don't take but just a little to make a stud rub hard on the edge of a hole. Sometimes....the stud might have a very slight bow to it. Its just the nature of the beast...

 

[one finger john]

Just to clarify the "love taps", are they straight down or to the base of the stud. I suppose a brass drift could work also.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Yup, a drift will work also....I love to have hammers that are soft but heavy to 'tap' things....that way I don't have to beat the h... outta it!

Base of the stud....