Retitling?

[Robbie]

After driving around the commonwealth of Virginia for a whole year in the t bucket, I've come to the conclusion that seeing "2002 Special Construction" on my title is just aggravating. I pay more in taxes, more on insurance, have to register the car yearly, and get it inspected yearly. My understanding is that you can get special construction vehicles to be titled as 1923. My car does have real parts from 23 (front axle and steering wheel), plus "antique" parts for the drivetrain, etc.

Question is, how can you get it titled as a 23? Has anyone ever gotten their bucket retitled?

 

[Francis Blake]

You would have to go to your state department of transportation, and they can tell you what to do if it's possible. I don't think your front axle and steering is model T, it is probably model a, the steering from a T wouldn't be strong enough

 

[Golly]

See if there's a "specialty registration service" in town. We used to use a company in Ca. called CARS, California Auto Registration Services" They were a couple of ladies that used to work at the DMV, and know all the loopholes, to do what you want, legally. Sort of like an accountant can find some good deductions for ya. They did all the leg work too, eg: filed it all at the DMV, for a fee of course, but well worth it we reckoned.

 

[Robbie]

Well, it's been a big hunt. I've visited the dmv, called them multiple times, and gotten tossed around. I finally got some answers today. I'm not too sure how similar this is to other states, but there is a difference between having it listed on the title as "Special Construction" which is what I have, and having it listed as "Replica" which I want to get.

Replica is a subcategory of SC, and only has one difference. When it's SC, the dmv and insurance only will look at what year it was constructed (2002), which means higher insurance/taxes and no antique status. My title does say "1923 T Bucket," but that doesn't count because it's written in the section Make/Model. However, when given the Replica title, it says the same thing, but with one more section that says "year" which would be 1923. Insurance and dmv will look at that and use it for taxes, insurance, and antique status.

So now the goal is to prove that it's a replica. This is a problem because I'm not the first owner. I need to have all the information on all the parts, and I'm not sure how possible that is. I'm going to see if I can track it down, but it may be the end of the road for me. If anyone has any advice, I'm glad to hear it. Otherwise, I'll post again if I get any success.

 

[jimbo01]

Usually people are looking for help getting their build titled, so this is a little different. I'm not sure you're going to convince anyone that this is a 1923 replica due to the style. The definition of replica is a copy or reproduction. So this question goes out to you, what is this a replica or reproduction of exactly?

 

[Screaming Metal]

Think Jimbo is right. BUT, just for sh-ts and giggles, go visit a title co. and tell them what your doing.
If you really have your heart set on this, go to a Notary or Justice of the Peace, if you have one in your area, and they can do it for you. The legal system is changing alot, not all of it is for the best, and they're stamping out the older JP's and Notarys and all the cool things they can do or were able to do.
New Construction/Kit Car/Special Construction are all areas on where folks wanna milk you for the money. Its not like that T does alot of damage to the roads, and taxed by Osama Billy Bob Obama for being looked over for Drone Strikes....

The powers that be don't want any 'old' cars on the road anymore, they want you to conform to getting a new car or using their great mass transit system....next thing they'll be labeling us domestic terrorists for driving out hotrods and causing mayhem, people looking and listening and admiring our cars!
Oh Sh-t! Admiration tax!!!! And Fun Tax!!!!

 

[McKibben]

What's the chance you can find a old original title and re title it that way?

 

[RPM]

What's the chance you can find a old original title and re title it that way?

A lot of that goes on. Just be warned it is a federal offense, called vin tampering. Then who is to say you buy an old title. Then you finish your car after thousands of dollars spent and an untold amount of hours spent. You take that title into the locale DMV and tell them you bought this car and need to transfer the title. You are waiting a long time at the counter only to have the police show up and want to see this car, because 40-50 years ago it was reported stolen and never recovered. Now the nice police impound your new hot rod, and you never see it again.

Not worth the chance, to me. Save all of your receipts for all the parts, and buy from a company that will issue an MSO for your kit you bought.

With an MSO you will get it titled as a 1923 Ford, or whatever you are building.

 

[Zandoz]

I may be picking nits, but here in Kentucky the issue is not getting registered...it's getting a state recognized VIN from the Transportation Cabinet. The DMV will register a Tonka Truck if it has a valid VIN. When it comes to getting a VIN, from my experience, there are so many generations of may or may not apply/superceed laws that it's near impossible to find out what's going to be applied in each individual case. The only thing consistent is the need for receipts for everything....which probably leaves me screwed.

I bought the engine and transmission on ebay, and at the time I had no idea I'd be building a car around them. It was probably 6 months before I knew of the need for receipts, and by then the seller was long gone, and the closest thing I have to a receipt is a very vague PayPal payment notification. To complicate matters further, there is probably an Ohio registered Camaro of the same VIN still running around. The way I came to getting the motor is that it was in an '89 daily driver from the factory...The owner gave it to a rather dubious "speed shop" as partial payment for putting a TPI V8 in the Camaro. The shop owner didn't want it, put it on ebay, and I was the only sucker to bid.

I've resigned myself to the fact that the engine and transmission I have will likely be used for mockup purposes.

<shrug>

 

[Spanky]

Talk to Josh at Spirit Cars. He may have a solution.

 

[mountainman]

Not advocating ANYTHING, but in today's world of copiers, scanners, Adobe, and the internet, receipts for the DMV for non-numbered parts should be no problem. Numbered parts (engine) can be handled legally also. Just a little more work and small amount of $$.

 

[hulkamania]

Just having a MSO/MCO for a kit car is not always an easy task to tackle and some states will not take them. We used to fight this battle nearly every time when we could only offer a MSO with our kits until we got laws passed that we can offer an Arkansas Title with our kits. The way we have to do a MSO if we send one to a customer is put the current year because the car was not built in 1923. The year on the MSO is supposed to read the year the car was manufactured, the make is supposed to be the manufacturer and Model is Assembled Vehicle/A.V.. Also not all states will take a MSO and if they do take a MSO you might have to jump through hoop after hoop. I have customers all the time calling up, and emailing us asking if we can sell them a title for their kit car they pieced together or bought from another manufacturer and having a heck of a time trying to get it tagged. I just had one this week that said they received a MSO and their state will not take it. For instance if you purchase a kit from speedway motors their MSO with read the current year and after talking to them they said that is how their MSO comes with the current year it was manufactured.

 

[T-Test]

After driving around the commonwealth of Virginia for a whole year in the t bucket, I've come to the conclusion that seeing "2002 Special Construction" on my title is just aggravating. I pay more in taxes, more on insurance, have to register the car yearly, and get it inspected yearly. My understanding is that you can get special construction vehicles to be titled as 1923. My car does have real parts from 23 (front axle and steering wheel), plus "antique" parts for the drivetrain, etc.

Question is, how can you get it titled as a 23? Has anyone ever gotten their bucket retitled?

As you know SEMA guide lines have not been followed in all States. With a fiberglass body, I doubt that ANY State will re title as an ORIGINAL '23 car. Same as you here in N.C. as in Va.. It's all about the money and also theft of the parts you use. Example. Had the title to the '79 Malibu S/W that I used the engine and tranny from. Other parts were from various other cars, rear end and front axle. Had to show receipts for all materials bought and whether I paid taxes on them. Had to get to estimates as to the value of the car, and of course they used the highest one. When I went to DMV to get car inspected to get a VIN and title, they ran the numbers on the engine and said it did not come in that car from the factory and said it came out of a '86 Camero, but was not listed as stolen. Said I would have to get Bonded on just the engine[$150.00] and they then assigned a Vin right then and riveted it on the frame. All told it costed $1600.00 with the taxes/title/and plates for it, INCLUDING HIGHWAY USE TAXES for the fuel you would use with a V8 engine figured into the equation as well as property taxes.. Titled as a CUSTOM vehicle just as you would a custom M/C. for the year that it was built.

Not to sound snotty, BUT if you brought one of Spirits COMPLETED cars built by them to N.C. with the title from their State as a 1923 car, N.C would re title it as a Custom built car on the title and the year that it was made or not allow it at all. Had a guy here that had a '40 Ford truck with a fiberglass body built by a pro from Alabama and tried to get it titled as a original. He paid that man $150.000.00 just in labor. Not happening because the head of the DMV lost his job because he tried to force one of the enforcement officers to approve it. The man could NEVER get that truck titled in N.C. even as a Custom Build.and had to sell it for a loss. And it was all about the taxes and what the truck was worth as well as getting an Antique license plate.

 

[Zandoz]

I wish I could simply use an off-the-shelf frame, and have an MSO...but this abomination I'm creating is so oddly proportioned and the bracketry so different, that in 3 years or so I've not seen anything off-the-shelf that would work.

 

[Zandoz]

The only true vintage part on my car would be the grille/radiator shell...from a 1920 Hupmobile. I doubt there is a chance in hell of getting it titled as that...LOL

 

[benT]

Not sure exactly how KY does it, but most states have a procedure to get an "assembled" VIN assigned by the state. In Indiana, you fill out an application form for an "MVIN" and you fill out the serial numbers (if applicable) for the engine, trans, body, and axles. You then have to have a LEO inspect the vehicle and sign off on the form. You then send it in to the BMV with photos of the car, and a copy of the receipts. I make a spreadsheet of all the expenses and which tax had already been paid on (like autozone parts) and which they have not. In a few weeks they send assign the MVIN number and you have to have a vin stamped on the car. I have had a trophy tag made or even had a dog tag engraved and then riveted on the frame. Once you have the MVIN on the frame, you have to have an LEO check and sign off that it matches and is securely mounted, then you take that and the paperwork sent by the BMV to the BMV and they will register and plate the car. It's really pretty easy actually. I think on the Purple Powder Pickup, we had to pay a few hundred in taxes when we registered.

 

[hulkamania]

Spirit Cars issues a VIN number since we have our World Manufacturer Identifier from the federal government. We follow their rules and procedures for issuing a VIN number that goes on the Arkansas title and the title will come with two VIN plates to attach to the frame and body.

 

[Zandoz]

Not sure exactly how KY does it, but most states have a procedure to get an "assembled" VIN assigned by the state. In Indiana, you fill out an application form for an "MVIN" and you fill out the serial numbers (if applicable) for the engine, trans, body, and axles. You then have to have a LEO inspect the vehicle and sign off on the form. You then send it in to the BMV with photos of the car, and a copy of the receipts. I make a spreadsheet of all the expenses and which tax had already been paid on (like autozone parts) and which they have not. In a few weeks they send assign the MVIN number and you have to have a vin stamped on the car. I have had a trophy tag made or even had a dog tag engraved and then riveted on the frame. Once you have the MVIN on the frame, you have to have an LEO check and sign off that it matches and is securely mounted, then you take that and the paperwork sent by the BMV to the BMV and they will register and plate the car. It's really pretty easy actually. I think on the Purple Powder Pickup, we had to pay a few hundred in taxes when we registered.

At least here, the problem is that I've not gotten the same procedure twice. One insisted that the car would have to be given a salvage title. I'm resigned to waiting until it's finished, then heading to the DMV with a folder of receipts...then I'll just have to go with the flow that day(s)

 

[HenrysT]

When you go to the DMV, get the person's name that you're talking to and next time you go there ask to see that person so HOPEFULLY you won't get different stories every time you go there, or ask for the supervisor because of you particular problem.