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Zandoz's unusual project and it's background, evolution, acquisitions, dilemmas, and questions

Sorry to hear that you haven't been well, I have been busy as hell reworking my septic system, unexpectedly, joy... Now my back is screaming at me.... Please help me understand why running dedicated grounds to everything is beneficial. I just don't see the benefit in a simple machine, unless there are some delicate electronics being used like rf, and they should be protected from electrical noise. Chassis grounds have worked well for decades. The chassis will need to be grounded anyway for the starter and alternator to work, why duplicate it? What am I missing? Seems like extra work, wire, and hassle to me.
 
Sorry to hear that you haven't been well, I have been busy as hell reworking my septic system, unexpectedly, joy... Now my back is screaming at me.... Please help me understand why running dedicated grounds to everything is beneficial. I just don't see the benefit in a simple machine, unless there are some delicate electronics being used like rf, and they should be protected from electrical noise. Chassis grounds have worked well for decades. The chassis will need to be grounded anyway for the starter and alternator to work, why duplicate it? What am I missing? Seems like extra work, wire, and hassle to me.

Thanks! Unfortunately we're all playing tag team creeping crud with a stomach virus...and just to add to the fun I've got a sinus infection going on.

Well, I guess part of it is that fiberglass bodied cars are notorious for ground issues. The other part is that over the years of working on cars, RVs, trailers, boats, and even my model railroading hobby...almost all of the "WTF!" hair pulling category electrical issues have ended up being due to grounding issues. I just prefer dealing with dedicated complete circuits, at least as far as the main panel. Yes, it's probably overkill...but then why use a tack hammer when you have a framing nail gun!
 
Me to. The brass strip by the battery is an Earth log.

 
Thanks! Unfortunately we're all playing tag team creeping crud with a stomach virus...and just to add to the fun I've got a sinus infection going on.

Well, I guess part of it is that fiberglass bodied cars are notorious for ground issues. The other part is that over the years of working on cars, RVs, trailers, boats, and even my model railroading hobby...almost all of the "WTF!" hair pulling category electrical issues have ended up being due to grounding issues. I just prefer dealing with dedicated complete circuits, at least as far as the main panel. Yes, it's probably overkill...but then why use a tack hammer when you have a framing nail gun!
I guess with a few circuits, doubling the wire isnt that big of a deal, but other than corrosion issues, I have never had ground problems with chassis grounds. I do like running a dedicated ground lead to a terminal in a central location for ease, and I don't like having a lot of penetrations into the car dash, or chassis for individual grounds, but I personally won't run seperate grounds to each component. One of the benefits I envisioned by building the cowl reinforcement was having a solid chassis ground in that area for gauges, etc... I also want to devise a method to unplug the electrics and remove the body. Having a central ground to unplug will simplify that. I have had more issues with connectors than chassis grounds over the years, but corrosion is the main culprit with them as well as with the grounds. Those flue and stomach bugs are no fun, my son, who still lives at home, is an administrator for a daycare company. Since he started that job, we have had more than our share of those issues... Little germ spewers! Hope you get feeling better!
 
I guess with a few circuits, doubling the wire isnt that big of a deal, but other than corrosion issues, I have never had ground problems with chassis grounds. I do like running a dedicated ground lead to a terminal in a central location for ease, and I don't like having a lot of penetrations into the car dash, or chassis for individual grounds, but I personally won't run seperate grounds to each component. One of the benefits I envisioned by building the cowl reinforcement was having a solid chassis ground in that area for gauges, etc... I also want to devise a method to unplug the electrics and remove the body. Having a central ground to unplug will simplify that. I have had more issues with connectors than chassis grounds over the years, but corrosion is the main culprit with them as well as with the grounds. Those flue and stomach bugs are no fun, my son, who still lives at home, is an administrator for a daycare company. Since he started that job, we have had more than our share of those issues... Little germ spewers! Hope you get feeling better!

I'm trying to avoid a lot of penetrations through the body, and separate connections to worry about for body removal. That's where those 22 pin WeatherPack bulkhead connectors come in. They're supposed to be weather and vibration proof. I'm thinking I'll use 2 of them...one on the firewall for everything forward...the other on the rear of the body for the fuel pump and the trailer harness. All the rear lighting will be mounted directly on the rear of the body. That will require 3 small holes through the body, but 2 will be sealed by the lights to the point that they are rated as being submersible...which again is probably overkill considering it will be a topless car, LOL.

What really has me worried about wiring is going to be the under-dash/panel area. I've been wiring stuff since I was a kid...I was replacing jukebox and pinball components under my dad's supervision by the time I was in 4th grade...and I've done a LOT of RV and conversion van wiring. But I've never done any from scratch stuff like gauges, various relays, etc. But that's going to be quite a way off.
 
I'm trying to avoid a lot of penetrations through the body, and separate connections to worry about for body removal. That's where those 22 pin WeatherPack bulkhead connectors come in. They're supposed to be weather and vibration proof. I'm thinking I'll use 2 of them...one on the firewall for everything forward...the other on the rear of the body for the fuel pump and the trailer harness. All the rear lighting will be mounted directly on the rear of the body. That will require 3 small holes through the body, but 2 will be sealed by the lights to the point that they are rated as being submersible...which again is probably overkill considering it will be a topless car, LOL.

What really has me worried about wiring is going to be the under-dash/panel area. I've been wiring stuff since I was a kid...I was replacing jukebox and pinball components under my dad's supervision by the time I was in 4th grade...and I've done a LOT of RV and conversion van wiring. But I've never done any from scratch stuff like gauges, various relays, etc. But that's going to be quite a way off.
Piece of cake, as long as you can read a basic schematic and use a multimeter, it's not difficult. Actually the meter isnt really necessary for new stuff, but I always get it out when working on anything electric, or electronic, just habit. The dash area would be a good place for a central ground lug as opposed to individual wires because there will be a lot of redundancy with all the lights, etc... I would suggest soldering or using quality shrink type crimp connectors with ox-guard, or similar anti oxidizing gel to minimize possible corrosion. A little extra effort and expence on the front end will prevent many swear words later, I've learned... I think I am going to put the relays and fuse panel under the seat with the battery, fuel pump, etc to simplify the wiring. The down side is most everything is switched via the GM column, so it's further than I prefer to run the wires from the switches to the fuse panel. I have room under the dash, but that's an awkward spot to work. 6 one way, half a dozen the other....
 
I have always liked doing my wiring from scratch. Long ago I did try one using a loom out of a 58 chevy to wire a 32 sedan, and made up my mind to just make my own after that. Not that hard to plan out every wire you will need in advance, but of course you will miss something.
 
I have always liked doing my wiring from scratch. Long ago I did try one using a loom out of a 58 chevy to wire a 32 sedan, and made up my mind to just make my own after that. Not that hard to plan out every wire you will need in advance, but of course you will miss something.
I usually do, but I bought a generic 12 circuit panel kit that has the GM connectors to hopefully simplify the project. I usually reuse salvage yard parts like the panels, relays, even harness parts and connectors too because the components are normally better quality than the aftermarket stuff. Of course, I used to have stuff on the shelf from parting stuff out, or parts cars available when I was in my prime. I am just getting tired and lazy with age, lol... It will likely bite me!
 
I usually do, but I bought a generic 12 circuit panel kit that has the GM connectors to hopefully simplify the project. I usually reuse salvage yard parts like the panels, relays, even harness parts and connectors too because the components are normally better quality than the aftermarket stuff. Of course, I used to have stuff on the shelf from parting stuff out, or parts cars available when I was in my prime. I am just getting tired and lazy with age, lol... It will likely bite me!
I had to help a friend out last year who was losing their house due to severe health and related financial issues. He had years of accumulated trucks and construction equipment sitting around that we had to dispose of to clean the lot, and get some money. I hated to scrap all of those goodies, but did salvage some neat items. We actually scrapped a big camper and a motor home. I have about a mile or so of wire from those things. I couldn't bring myself to selling all of the wire for scrap price. It will come in handy for something. I bet there were twenty or more strands of wire running the length of each camper, all copper, perfect condition, ranging from 16 g all the way up to 2 o battery cable. I did scrap a 413 industrial engine with a 727 torqflight that had 58k on it.... Kinda regret it but can't keep everything, and no one had a use for it at the time. Good news, we saved his house.... Sorry for the sidetrack, just following my mindset....eeek!
 
Piece of cake, as long as you can read a basic schematic and use a multimeter, it's not difficult. Actually the meter isnt really necessary for new stuff, but I always get it out when working on anything electric, or electronic, just habit. The dash area would be a good place for a central ground lug as opposed to individual wires because there will be a lot of redundancy with all the lights, etc... I would suggest soldering or using quality shrink type crimp connectors with ox-guard, or similar anti oxidizing gel to minimize possible corrosion. A little extra effort and expence on the front end will prevent many swear words later, I've learned... I think I am going to put the relays and fuse panel under the seat with the battery, fuel pump, etc to simplify the wiring. The down side is most everything is switched via the GM column, so it's further than I prefer to run the wires from the switches to the fuse panel. I have room under the dash, but that's an awkward spot to work. 6 one way, half a dozen the other....

I have several multimeters...one new, and at least a couple 50+ years old. Before dad would let me work on the vending machines, I had to build a multimeter from a Heath kit. When I was in high school I used to spend a lot of supposed to be study hall time in the physics lab rebuilding the meters students had blown. Unfortunately most of my multimeter smarts were in brain cells that have gone over the rainbow to see Dorothy & Toto. I have no idea if much of it will come back.

I was planning on a panel ground buss as the origin point for all the ground wires. A few of the things I like about the Centech wiring kits is that they come with most of the switches, the fuse panel connections are lugless, and where there are connectors they are pre-installed with machine crimping and soldering. I'm also liking their fan controllers. The stuff is a bit pricey for my low budget, but it's looking like it may be money well spent.

The anti oxidizing gel is something new to me...I'll have to look into that.

The Ididit column I have has the GM connector, but currently only has the turn signal and flasher functions. Another pricey option I'm considering is adding the Ididit turn signal stalk mounted dimmer switch, and the appropriate relay...around a $110. It's kind of the route of least resistance to a less unconventional driving experience. My wife is very touchy when it comes to things that don't work as she expects. I was once looking at an old Plymouth, and she said she probably would not drive it because of the "goofy" push button transmission <shrug>. I'm also considering putting a pod on the top of the steering column for turn and bright indicator lights, the headlight switch, and possibly the ignition switch. With all that plus the gauges on the dash, and the battery on the firewall in the passenger side foot well, it doesn't make much sense to put the panel under the seat. I'm pretty much stuck with under the dash...I just need to figure out how to make it all fit and be easily
accessible.
 
I don't like either the seat or dash option, but I can reach the under seat option as I am going to mount my seat on hinges in the front, two bolts in the back from under, so it will be accessible. I only plan on a headlight switch that will be dash mounted, not sure where yet. Everything else is on the column, with the exception of a cigarette lighter outlet, and I will have to get creative there. That's why I put so much work into adapting that column, it solves many issues electrically as well as the tilt/scope feature that really makes the difference fo me as far as driving it. My dimmer will be on the shifter with the line lock, and I don't plan on any other switched accessories. The fuel pump is the only electric motor, and it will be energized via a relay with the ignition switch. I opted for a speedway generic harness that I bought from Ron, cheap, simple, has the connectors I need. It's not the highest quality, but doesn't need to be. I will focus on quality connectors, switches, and relays, that's where corner cutting will bite more often than not. I didn't know it was a speedway harness till it arrived, I order from Ron whenever I can to support him, since he puts so much effort into keeping this site going etc... I order from the others too. A little here, there. I also ordered a 30 amp relay module, that has four relays mounted on a board with terminal strips. I think that will be enough. I may order another one that is a 15 amp, for lighter circuits, but doubt I will need it. The only reason I use relays is to isolate and protect switches, etc on high draw loads, ie headlights, motors, etc. I may opt to mount the panel and relays under the dash too, been waffling on that subject, I hate trying to work under the dash though. I haven't yet came up with my dash design. I want to make one that is a little different, simple, minimum clutter. I do want full instrumentation, I found some nice little LED indicator lights for the hi beam, turn signals, and one for the line lock that I will incorporate, again, only one switch, and not sure where it will go, likely on the left side of the column. I want to try to work it so I have a simple glove compartment type of storage under the passenger side. It may just be a shelf type, but I always have a hand full of something to take with me. If I do work that into the design, I am not sure if the electronics under dash is feasible. The only real advantage I see is shorter leads to the switches, and that's a biggie, but with relays, not so much.... I will have to ponder more.... I was making decent progress u till the plumbing thing came up. Now I am out of sinc with it, and my body is in recovery mode from all of the physical work my busted back isn't used to anymore....Spent all day cleaning the shop from the emergency back hoe repair that came up in the middle of the emergency plumbing repair. What a friggin nightmare! That's life, at least the version I got stuck with, lol. As for the gel, there are a couple brands I have used. No real preference. I used to use ignition grease aka dialectic grease, or even petroleum gel when I worked on X-ray machines. Anything to keep the moisture away from the connections. Soldering is definitely preferable to crimps in my opinion, but quality crimps are ok. I prefer the ones with the shrink shields on them. My brother in law, who is a navy aviation mechanic, turned me on to them. I figure if it's good enough for planes exposed to salt water, it will do for me...
 
I was hoping to keep my dash simple...just a centered speedometer & tach, with either a pull out electronics drawer or an old school 3 gauge under dash panel. That plan got shot down when I decided to do the grab bar just below and to the rear of the dash, blocking the drawer or 3 gauge panel. It looks like I'll have to move the 3 gauges to the right side of the dash. Anything I end up putting forward of the dash will have to drop down for access.
 
I was hoping to keep my dash simple...just a centered speedometer & tach, with either a pull out electronics drawer or an old school 3 gauge under dash panel. That plan got shot down when I decided to do the grab bar just below and to the rear of the dash, blocking the drawer or 3 gauge panel. It looks like I'll have to move the 3 gauges to the right side of the dash. Anything I end up putting forward of the dash will have to drop down for access.
I like the idea of a drawer or drop down panel for stealth and access, but I dont like having the wires bend and move. That's a stress point for connection issues, but could be done in a quality manor as long as the wires took the bending without stressing the connectors. I actually have some room in the toe kick and thought about putting it there, but opted to allow more room around the engine and bell housing for servicing, etc and I assumed that area would be subject to heat, moisture, etc. There is room under the passenger side floor and that would be between the battery and the column. I may opt for a door for access like I plan for the master and pro portioning valve on the other side and build a weather tight box for it there. I am going to get the body and dash work finished first, then decide where to mount the electronics that makes the most sense based on space, function, and harness provisions.
The grab bar thought is one of the reasons that I decided to build the dash/cowl reinforcement, so the steering column, doors, and windshield are all rigidly mounted. I figure that will allow some leverage points to aid entry, exit without breaking anything.
 
The grab bar hoop started out as strictly entry/exit assist. I've known from the start that I'd not be able to use the body for support, and support is a must for me. It wasn't till later that a duh bubble burst and it dawned on me that it would work for steering column and hinge support.

If I can work out a good way to do it, I want another hoop at the rear...just high enough above the body to make it grabable. The problem is going to be mounting points that will not prevent body removal.

For windshield support I'm sailing into uncharted waters. First off, I'm not using a formal windshield... I'm going with a pair of Brooklands racing windscreens....
brooklands.JPG

They will mount along the top of the cowl/dash, with 2 feet each. I could probably get by with metal plates on the underside for reinforcement...but I'm planning on something else. I'm hesitant to go into detail until I've actually tried it, because I would hate to have someone else try it, and have it dangerously fail at highway speeds. In general terms it involves using a marine product intended for casting boat transoms and such, to fill the underside top of the dash/cowl...then fastening the windscreen feet through the fiberglass and the cast material. If it works, the whole top of the cowl/dash would have to break off for the windscreen fasteners to pull through. Plus, since the casting material is tappable, it would make for solid mounting of tonneau cover fasteners.

I know that most of my plans will change when it actually comes time to do. I just like to have somewhat plausible plans for everything, and having those plans seemingly mesh with each other. I'm hoping that doing so will help prevent making big mistakes when I commission having the frame and bracketry built. I'm only going to be able to afford one shot at the frame, and I'm REALLY paranoid that I'm going to screw it up.
 
Neutral safe switch...
Yeah, one would have to be worked out for one of those racing shifters.

For now, a race shifter is my fall-back plan. I plan on trying to modify a B&M Unimatic cable shifter, to mount on the firewall with the shift lever through or under the dash. My goal is to eliminate things my leg would hit. With my mobility issues I may end up putting a 2nd throttle pedal above or to the right of the trans tunnel.
 
Yeah, one would have to be worked out for one of those racing shifters.

For now, a race shifter is my fall-back plan. I plan on trying to modify a B&M Unimatic cable shifter, to mount on the firewall with the shift lever through or under the dash. My goal is to eliminate things my leg would hit. With my mobility issues I may end up putting a 2nd throttle pedal above or to the right of the trans tunnel.
My go petal is mounted to the bell housing bump. I don't have a tunnel, I was able to keep the floor flat because the manual transmission is smaller. With the clutch and brake petals, it would have been very tight to get a third petal between the bell bump and brake petal. My point is make it so you can drive it and enjoy it. Whatever works for you is the right way to do it.
 
My go petal is mounted to the bell housing bump. I don't have a tunnel, I was able to keep the floor flat because the manual transmission is smaller. With the clutch and brake petals, it would have been very tight to get a third petal between the bell bump and brake petal. My point is make it so you can drive it and enjoy it. Whatever works for you is the right way to do it.

Coming up with suitable seating and arranging the steering column & gas pedal(s) is going to be a nightmare. To be honest it's going to take a good bit of luck for me to be able to drive it at all without hand controls. Unfortunately comfort is going to have to take a back seat to usability.

I REALLY wish I could afford to switch gears and go with one of RPM's widened bodies...I'd have a much better shot at usability AND comfort. As is I can't afford to scrap the body, expensive rear suspension, and rear axle that I have.
 

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