Ron Pope Motorsports                California Custom Roadsters               

Edelbrock Carb Tune

Tfitch03

New Member
Guys, I am not sure if this issue has been addressed or not ( I dont have a whole lot of time to research past threads right now). I just rebuilt by 600cfm Edel... carb and am experiencing a slight hesitation when I initially accelerate from a stop. Any ideas how to tune this better? I have a very smooth idle at app 600-700 rpm, 4.5psi fuel pressure, smooth power after the pause. I have never been very knowledgeable on this matter so I would appreciate some thoughts. Thanks.
 
Did you have the problem before you rebuilt the carb?
 
yes sir. Been doing it as far back as I can remember. Carb out of the box onto the engine. This is the first time I have been interested in really tuning it. Did the rebuild and adjusted EVERYTHING to spec. I am now reading that it could be a lean condition for a fraction of a second?? Maybe accelerator pump adjustment?
 
Accelerator pump would be my first guess.

Jim
 
I like your quote. So can do you think I should try moving the linkage down one notch first? I put a new rubber plunger in.
 
Well, it sounds like, without any other info about your motor, that you have a lean stumble just when you step on it, theres a split second to where the carb leans out. By advancing your squirt, yes, you could do away with the stumble. But that is a band-aid for the origional problem.
Since you don't know the sequence to troubleshooting, I would change to a fatter pump cam, then have it adjusted to where it has very little slack. But, this is a crutch as I said. Do you have any good friends that are good at tuning motors?
You will probably have to change your power valve, to richen things up just when the drop in vaccum occurs. Bumping your timing back may alleviate your problem somewhat....but the problem needs to resolved.
 
Thanks for the input. I don't have a buddy/acquaintance/nothin that knows tuning. The engine is a Chevy 350 all stock with exception of a cam: 272-282 442-465. not sure on timing I will check tonight. I want to say 13-15 deg at idle (memory only). I will adjust plunger tonight too.
 
Its a typical issue with edelbrocks had a few do it to me........................Its about a 25.00 fix.

Go to your local parts store and buy a offroad needle and seat and it should cure it. Its spring loaded cause the factory ones that are not stick and cause that issue among other things like loading up and dumping fuel after engine shut off.

Edelbrock part number 1465 for the performer series carbs...........

edelbrock_1465.jpg
 
Ok. Thanks for the advice. I adjusted my idle screws on front and checked the timing. Right at about 12-13 deg at idle. I have never had that snappy response and I guess that is what I am chasing. Perhaps it won't be had with this set up.
 
Edelbrock power valve?
hahahaha.....sorry, no pv's, but, its got a little lean spot in the transition circuit at the vaccum drop.....a power valve would help richen it up. Any, wether a Carter, a Q-Jet, Holley, or Edelbrock....it needs tuned. Its hell trying to keep on top of the latest stuff.
 
Perhaps it won't be had with this set up.
Remember, carburetors are dumber than rocks and they have no brains. You are the one with the brains. Carburetors have no idea what they are bolted to, so don't toss the baby out with the bath water. Look at all the race cars that have won races and set records with Carter AFB carbs on them. So don't admit defeat, before you've really tried to tackle the problem.

I am aware there are a handful of variables in play here, but let's try not to get too technical. At sea level, one gallon of air weighs approximately 2 lbs. 10 oz. At normal 72° temperatures, a typical gallon of gasoline will weigh a tick over 6 lbs. When you step on the pedal and things start happening, Newton's old Law of Inertia comes into play. Objects at rest tend to remain at rest, aye? But since that air is 1/3rd the weight of the gasoline, it is easier to get it moving than it is to get the gasoline moving. Which means, in very rudimentary terms, the air is moving well before the gasoline.

But you have stepped on the pedal, opening the primary throttle blades and exposing the intake plenum to a lot more air than it is prepared to deal with. So the engine suddenly goes lean and stumbles. If one gets lean enough, it will backfire through the carb throat. (Witness all the 'high-tech' tuners who remove the choke blades from their Holley carbs and then try to start their cars on a 45° - 50° morning, for a quick take-off.

Once you open the throttle blades and engine vacuum starts disappearing, you have to toss in some raw gasoline, pretty quickly, in order to keep the intake tract wet. But since that gasoline is heavier than the air, you need to get the gasoline moving with a head-start, so it will be there when the air arrives. In short, advance the pump action and add additional pump volume.

Moved the accelerator pump linkage down one hole (as in closer to the carb body) and then take the car out for a test drive. Better? Worse? Either way, you have a baseline and you have moved off the baseline, so now let the car tell you what it wants. Once you find where the pump rod wants to be, then you can start playing with pump nozzles. But they will be just like the adjustment on the accelerator pump, you are going to have to test-n-tune for your application and your driving style. Use a smaller nozzle and you will have a longer pump shot. On the other hand, using a larger nozzle will shorten the pump shot, by allowing the pump shot to be introduced quicker.

You don't say how you adjusted your idle mixture screws, but that will have naught to do with the power transition circuit. Those idle mixture screws only control how much air/fuel emulsion is picked up at idle. Once the throttle blades start to open, those idle mixture screws (for the most part) drop out of the equation. Hook up a vacuum gauge and re-adjust the mixture screws to give you the highest possible vacuum reading. It will take some time, moving back and forth between the two. Once you have them adjusted, forget them and focus on the accelerator pump circuit.

If you notice a stumble occurring whilst at a cruise RPM, then it will be time to start playing with step-up springs, to alter the staging of the power mode. But that's meat for a different meal, so let's focus on your acceleration issues, before we start playing with other areas.
 
Really good info. I adjusted the idle mixture by setting my idle (with engine hot) and then turning the screws in until a drop in RPM then backing them out half turn (started on the driver side). I also moved my accelerator pump linkage down one hole. After driving it the prob seemed to be the same maybe slightly better. I don't know if it was better because my brain wanted it to be or it really was. I will keep fiddling with it because similar to what you said: "you must be smarter than the thing you are trying to do." I am going to a car show type event tonight and will mess with it more this weekend. Thanks for all the input.
 
Mike is our 'Tower of Power'....and our resident 2 legged computer of Knowdledge. Hahaha....carbs aren't bad when you know what does what and you learn to do things to change this and that.
You have a idle circuit, a mid circuit, the main circuit, and usually a richening circuit. These have overlaps, and usually, adjusting them (the overlaps) are where many people loose it.
I remember in the pits back quite a few years, and folks would drop they're bottom jaws when they saw Q-Jets on some of the old SS's. Theres alot to be said for the Q-Jets and the ole Carters....good simple basic carbs.
 
I
Mike is our 'Tower of Power'....and our resident 2 legged computer of Knowdledge. Hahaha....carbs aren't bad when you know what does what and you learn to do things to change this and that.
You have a idle circuit, a mid circuit, the main circuit, and usually a richening circuit. These have overlaps, and usually, adjusting them (the overlaps) are where many people loose it.
I remember in the pits back quite a few years, and folks would drop they're bottom jaws when they saw Q-Jets on some of the old SS's. Theres alot to be said for the Q-Jets and the ole Carters....good simple basic carbs.
i put a new Edelbrock on mine and it did the same thing I gave a little more timming and it runs good now
 
That would be my 10CW as well. Everything else is fine, its maybe just that the engine is looking for more advance to use the extra gas. Try going down one spring size on the advance weights, listen carefully for the tell tale rattle of detonation - the odd ping doesn't worry me, a full auto type burst does.
 
I didnt change a thing since last post. I drove the car all night last night and when I initiate throttle more rapidly I dont have the studder. When I come on slow is when I have the studder/pause. All you guys were right, it must be the momentary lean situation. I will say this too, since I tuned it per the book its power delivery while driving is MUCH better. I will be out in it on Sunday afternoon if anyone is in the Dallas area and wants to meet up.
 
No problem ,I have worked with several . FORGET everything you know about Holleys, forget powervalves, squirter cams ect.
Between the primaries and the secondaries are two small screws with a oblong plate below . If you take these screws out you will see a piston with a metering rod attached. How these work is the metering rod goes thru the middle of the jet. The rod is tapered and as it moves up and down in the jet it increases the fuel mixture. Your running into a lean condition off idle .The engine vacumn holds this piston down with the metering rod at the bottom" the thickest part" " the leanest setting".When you open the throttle the vacumn drops allowing the spring to push up on the metering rod and increase the fuel flow.If the airflow thru the carb increases faster than the metering rod opens up it will cause it to go lean. The first thing is to buy the tuning kit with different colored springs, and it will come with a chart showing the progression of spring tension.
You can tune it very close with these springs , VERY good carb,but will not flow enough fuel into the bowls for a real race application.The tuning kit costs a couple of bucks but has a good book and a lot of parts. Hope this helps.
 
Here is the update. I bought the only tuning kit available at pep boys. 1st I changed to a stiffer spring on the metering rod. There was a slight improvement. I then began playing with different metering rods. The only thing I noticed was a significant improvement in high power driving, and no change with the stumble off idle. Today it occurred to me that this is due to the smaller diameter Rich Step, and the Lean Step being the same diameter as stock. I ordered a larger jet (.104) and until that arrives I will change the stock jet to one slightly larger that came in my kit. (.100 stock to a .101). I will see if that offers any improvement and let you know.
 
Update 2. Changed to a slightly larger jet last night. Hesitation is worse than before. I am going to wait until my other tuning kit gets here before I do more tuning. I also bought a vacuum gauge...everything seems to check out on that front.
 

     Ron Pope Motorsports                Advertise with Us!     
Back
Top