How would you get a T to "hook up"

[EX JUNK]

One thing that I might add about my car is the weight. I had it weighed on a set of race car scales that not only gives you total weight but the weight at each corner along with diagonal weight and front and rear weight. Mine weighs 1937# and is 50# heavier in the rear than the front.

Jim

P.S. I might also that my car has a 108" wheelbase and a 28" driveshaft.

 

[2old2fast]

Is there any way the link that Henry's T posted could be put in our tech forum ??? Lot's of good info..

dave

 

[T-Test]

Is there any way the link that Henry's T posted could be put in our tech forum ??? Lot's of good info..

dave

Save to your on computer in the documents section.

 

[Screaming Metal]

No doubt. But again I ask, without being too insistent or pushy, how did you arrive at the final mount points for the rear suspension? Is there a formulae? Another builder here said that he put the mounts where they looked the best (???). Has to be some science involved.

Screamin' Metal, can you hep me out hea'?

John

Sorry John, I didn't even your post there. Yes, The sketch a couple of posts down is pretty much what we use....

 

[Screaming Metal]

Sorry for the not seeing your question John, I'm on and off frequently....

A T and a Altered have alot in common. The formula that was used over on the last page, will work, though our cars are alot lighter. To get one of these to hook up under drag conditions with a sticky track and slicks will be different than a car weighing #1700 with gas, driver, coolant with street tires on a less than pristene piece of asphalt.
Tires have more tuning in them than most folks know, a little know how on a good 4-link, you can got one to hook pretty well.
On the street, mostly, for most people, wheelie bars aren't needed. If you have a decent suspension, a 600 horse blown bigblock, some big sticky Goodyear slicks, the front end can come up pretty easily. However, its the coming down part thats the problem. The wheelie bars help the car to hook up, while protecting it from standing straight up and coming back down, breaking and /or bending the front end under speed and power.
I build some hi-horse stuff, and on my ride, I have wheelie bars and a roll bar for safety. As a really good friend told me, when the wheels are up, it looks cool and good, but you can't steer when the wheels are dangling in the air.

Ted Brown has spent years, having a good, basic design, dependable as hell, non- complicated suspensions. His cars have always hooked really well, because he knows how to set them up. Its all in the setup....
As fast as these cars can be....its best to err on the side of caution. Theres no reason why a well built T with a smallblock can't run in the 10's. Thats plenty fast enough to get the biggest majority of us into severe trouble....

 

[Mike J]

I've seen T's w/ wheelie bars & every once in a while someone asks about the "need" for them. In my experience , I can pretty much blow the tires off anywhere under 60 mph. So what I'm wondering is , what would you have to do to get a T to hook up??

dave

Less power!

 

[Bugflipper]

I don't run the big hp engines that a lot of the fellows on here run. Just stockish 60's small block chevys with some common bolt ons in the 400-425 hp range. My solution is setting up the rear like the fellows have already suggested and going with good tires and a higher gear ratio than a lot of folks here go with. Having a good, hard pulling, torquey motor makes up for the ratio and gets traction without spinning much. just the normal chirping. No smokey burnouts at freeway speeds.
The tires I've been going with lately are nitto drag radials that are 325 wide. They last about 4000 miles. They hook up really good. Not a true drag radial, more like a street one with siping for water. They also don't need a smokey burnout. Will launch just fine cold on the track. On the road they heat up in a few miles and perform good as well. I can get some chirping out of cold tires on the street, no smoke. On the track they don't make any noise. Odds are they would break a rear end if it's not strong enough for your motor though. A lot of folks don't want to spin but if they didn't those popular s10 rears might not think too highly of a decent v8 with some torque to it.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Back in the late 70's, a friend of mine bought a old 1960's altered setup for 392 hemi. He bought the frame, body, rear, front suspension, everything but the trans and motor f0r $500.
I checked the frame for cracks and straightness, we put a powerglide in it with a 10 converter, and I built a 350 with a flat tappet bracket cam, a Edelbrock single plane intake and a 650 doublepumper, stock HEI, timing chain set, rods, crank, heads were the old doublehump heads, angle plugs, 2.050 intakes with guideplates, roller rockers. Gears in the rear were 3.90's with 33" M&H RaceMasters.
With alot of tuning and some old Hooker headers and a econo-dragster scoop on top of the motor, we got the car straight off the bat to run 11 flat, within a couple of weekends had it to 10.25, and the next month 9.60's.
Not to shabby for a fairly stock, probably low to mid 400 horse 350 turning about 6800 rpm thru the lights. total investment in the car was $3300 all parts included....
Next year I rebuilt a 375 Horse 396 Rat for the car, it ran into the low 8's....
With little to no weight, big sticky tires to plant some good horses to the ground, theres no reason why a everyday T can't run in the low 11's or high 10's. Thats enough to blow away 95% whats on the street these days....

These old cars used to be awesome with the old 3x2 or 4x2 nailheads, a turbo hydromatic trans. a quickchange rear, with some good old Cokers on the rear. Looks are as good as speed anymore....the cops would probably impound your car now adays for streetracing....

 

[joecool]

I've never built a lighter car like a T but I can tell you how we do our race cars. Ladder bars are set up with the lower bar parallel to the ground. Raise it for a harder hit on the tires lower it for a softer hit.
Four link is initially set up with the imaginary intersect points at the base of the front wheel. This is only a starting point, raise it for harder hit same as ladder bar.
Now that being said the ladder bar functions differently but not why you probably think. The ladder bar is mounted on the rear axle to form a C shape with the housing. This is the same shape a sway bar has. The way a ladder bar is designed is it also acts as a sway bar ,not allowing one side of the car to raise higher than the other,your roll center if you will. If you put a jack under one side of a ladder bar it will try to raise both sides, using the rear axle housing as a connecting point.
A four link will allow one side to go up or down without any binding. The same principle as a tube axle front with hairpins vrs. four bar.If a high h.p. car uses a four link and does not use a sway bar it will launch with a huge amount of roll rotation. I'm sure you have all seen that.In my opinion ,all a four link does is give you more adjustment options,if you do not understand what happens when you change mounting points you are probably better served with a ladder bar setup. A lot of very quick cars use ladder bars. I would never spend the extra money on a four link,spend it somewhere else.
Just my opinion.

 

[Rogers23T]

I'm just being funny on this; I think the only reason we use wheelie bars on T's is so they don't roll over backwards... Ha Ha Ha

 

[Golly]

Yep Joecool has it right. It's all about instant centre etc. along with sticky tires and a high stall converter and the right rear gear will make it all happen. (which doesn't equal "street car" )
As a side note , the wheelie bars are another tuning aid we use on the nitro cars as it allows the chassis to squat in to the tire a certain amount before hitting the bar. If it comes down too far, it comes back out as the car goes down the track and can unload the rears. That's why Pro/Stock and Fuel classes set the wheelie bar height after the burn out.

 

[Screaming Metal]

Hahaha....you get a car thats all fiberglass, a guy that cut a 3/10's light, at least 1600 horses fixin to be unleashed, onto two strips of rubber roughly 28 to 20" wide to 4 ot 6" long, depending on the class and how low you want to run your tires, throw in a flashing yellow to green light to start on, those 2 wheelie (or One) bars can give you a decisive edge getting to the end of the track first.
When they shortened things down to 1000 ft....that took alot of the fun out of it for me, cause theres alot of races and records have been won in the 340 feet at the far end....

 

[Hot Rod Todd]

I found with 32 tall tyres and a blown BBC, that the car just gripped and went on the street. Did that with the blown 454 (627hp) and with the blown 540 (851hp)

Had a ladder bar setup and we put it in the higher of the two front points. And the usual three way adjustable QA1s coilovers on the rear. Car did weigh 2500lbs without driver tho. I have no idea how you guys get your cars down to under 1500lbs

 

[Screaming Metal]

I found with 32 tall tyres and a blown BBC, that the car just gripped and went on the street. Did that with the blown 454 (627hp) and with the blown 540 (851hp)

Had a ladder bar setup and we put it in the higher of the two front points. And the usual three way adjustable QA1s coilovers on the rear. Car did weigh 2500lbs without driver tho. I have no idea how you guys get your cars down to under 1500lbs

Alot of head and butt scratching, weighing parts, lightening everything a little adds up to a lot at the end of the day....

 

[RPM]

Alot of head and butt scratching, weighing parts, lightening everything a little adds up to a lot at the end of the day....

A good friend of mine ran a AA/FA a long time ago, he said if ya throw it up in the air and it comes back down. It was too heavy.

 

[bigblk1177]

Hahaha....you get a car thats all fiberglass, a guy that cut a 3/10's light, at least 1600 horses fixin to be unleashed, onto two strips of rubber roughly 28 to 20" wide to 4 ot 6" long, depending on the class and how low you want to run your tires, throw in a flashing yellow to green light to start on, those 2 wheelie (or One) bars can give you a decisive edge getting to the end of the track first.
When they shortened things down to 1000 ft....that took alot of the fun out of it for me, cause theres alot of races and records have been won in the 340 feet at the far end....

Yeah I really like those races that are won in the last 20 feet of the " 340 feet" after the first 1000 feet of the 1320 feet we call a quarter mile. I mean fighting to stop the damn thing!! You know considering the last 20 feet of 340 feet is after the quarter mile finish line!! LOL But hey we all know what you meant SM Just another senior moment like I have all the time! Now what were we talking about and wheres my adult drink, its almost my nap time!!

 

[Screaming Metal]

Hahaha...yea BB, some folks, well, the majority of the winners don't let off the throttle until they're well across the finish line. Makes for some fine antics applying Brakes, Chutes, and Prayers by the bucket loads....maybe even a few choice words when they get a little sideways.
There In Bama, the shutdown area way rough....you used to be able to see some of the cars get a little air, if they didn't run all the way off the track.
Nap time....

 

[railroad]

I have read that the torque arm suspension does very good in making a car tranfer the power and weight.
You guys are scary, talking about trying to put that much power down.

 

[old round fart]

I remember my first stop in my second dragster. I went from a 148 MPH car to a 175 MPH car and when I crossed the finish line, I applied the brakes and the car started bouncing HIGH off the ground! I called the PO and he laughed and said "slow down before you touch the brakes".
Wish he had told me before I soiled my firesuit!

 

[RPM]

I remember my first stop in my second dragster. I went from a 148 MPH car to a 175 MPH car and when I crossed the finish line, I applied the brakes and the car started bouncing HIGH off the ground! I called the PO and he laughed and said "slow down before you touch the brakes".
Wish he had told me before I soiled my firesuit!

That is what parachutes are for.