Seat belts, air bags, T wreck

[blownt]

There has been MUCH discussion both here and on that other site about whether or not to have seat belts, mount belts to the frame or body, etc..... My personal opinion is seat belts in a bucket is just to keep you on the seat in case you hit a big road bump or curb or something. These are HOT RODS and not your typical daily driver with crush points and crumple zones, air bags, etc.... Whether you use seat belts or not or how you have them mounted, I feel, in a serious wreck with another vehicle and T bucket, the T bucket driver will NOT fair well.

Use your best judgement as to using seat belts and their placement. It has been done MANY ways. As well as body mounting. Just my opinion but there is NO WAY in heck I would use the expanding rubber bisquits. Those are just plain stupid. Again MY opinion. (See below pics for proof)

Here are the other pics of the T bucket wreck in Washington. The guy was NOT killed but had a severe head injury and is not under a blanket. If you notice on pic 7 the frame broke at the left rear Z upright.



http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/TwreckWA1.jpg

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/TwreckWA2.jpg

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/TwreckWA3.jpg

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/TwreckWA4.jpg

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/TwreckWA5.jpg

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/TwreckWA6.jpg

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/TwreckWA7.jpg

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/TwreckWA8.jpg

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/TwreckWA9.jpg

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/TwreckWA10.jpg

 

[Gerry]

At last the truth about that crash. If the body was held on with just plastic fittings then you can see why it did what it did.
I for one will go with the wisdom of the scrutineers at the drag strip and mount then to the chassis.
As you say we will never fair well in a serious collision but for the minor ones (the most common according to the stats) I will be sure that I am not going to be thrown forward into the steering wheel or screen.
You all can make your own mind up on this one.
Still going to look in to air bags for the sides (THE MOST VULNERABLE PART OF A T)
Gerry

 

[Corley]

Did you notice that the frame welds broke at the rear kickup? I don't think that should have happened if it was welded properly.

However, that's probably a moot point, it's pretty much like riding a bike when these things get hit. You are VERY exposed... In reality, a helmet might be the best bet! (But I won't be wearing one.)

Seat belts, YES, because it's the law if for no other reason! ("Click it or Ticket"... around here anyway.)

Air bags, where do you put them, and as you can see, in this case they wouldn't have done much good.

Just a thought, maybe he survived BECAUSE it flew all apart and absorbed the crash???

But, would an actual antique 'T' have done any better for him? I doubt it.

It seems like a fraction of a second of not paying proper attention probably caused this. We all have distractions everytime we drive, and it's just dumb luck this is not us. I just hope he recovers well and rebuilds. Don't let Momma see these pix!

 

[VegasBruce]

Did you notice that the frame welds broke at the rear kickup? I don't think that should have happened if it was welded properly.

I've seen this pic before.

However, this is the first time I've seen this pic. It looks like there where other factors, allowing to the seriousness of the wreck.

 

[Keeper]

Thanks for the clarification. I feel better now that I am not picking on the dead.

Oh and another reason I will be putting fish plates on all my kick up welds.

 

[leg show T]

YES. -----The driver of the-- T-bucket was rushed to the hospital by ambulance and later expired-- from traumatic head injuries,

swelling of the brain. IF HE HAD BEEN WEARING A HELMET, HE WOULD BE ALIVE TODAY. What do you think UK,

seatbelts, airbags, and helmets. Sounds like your kind of car!? I think so!

Bob Nunes

 

[Ted Brown]

You were right when you said the weld was not correct, when correct, the weld is now the strongest part... with added leverage at the kick-up points, it never hurts to fish plate those areas, and most people that weld frames are not good welders, sorry to say... Plus, we still do not really know just what caused that crash, most all that I have seen have been caused by speed, too quick on the pedal... Sorry to hear that fellow did not make it, may he RIP...

 

[Gerry]

YES. -----The driver of the-- T-bucket was rushed to the hospital by ambulance and later expired-- from traumatic head injuries,

swelling of the brain. IF HE HAD BEEN WEARING A HELMET, HE WOULD BE ALIVE TODAY. What do you think UK,

seatbelts, airbags, and helmets. Sounds like your kind of car!? I think so!

Bob Nunes

The T had seatbelts in 75 as i mentioned before. Airbags in Ts is a subject I brought up to get the opinions of other T bucket owners/builders. As for helmets. Not for me.

 

[Corley]

Wouldn't it be great if someone made a helmet that looked just like a regular baseball cap? Then, at least on a longer cruise, you could dawn that thing and feel a touch safer. I suppose the strap would give it away, but all we need is an inovative execution of this idea, and it could be a real money maker. It has to have a soft outside, hard shell inside, hidden strap, and reasonable cost. The bill can still be soft, and it needs to come in different colors / logos. I freely release all interests in this product, go for it. Screw the DOT marking, make what is needed to keep the blood off of the white hair. Maybe it already exists?
Like I said before though, just don't go showing these pictures to the little woman, or you may not even have to worry about this situation. You will only be driving the minivan...

Just like when on a bike, the smart man leaves himself plenty of manuvoring room around a T. Don't follow too close, don't do any tricky or fast manuvors! Make like everyone is out to get you, and your chances of an event free drive will go up. Drive fast, follow close, swerve around, and you will need more than air bags, seat belts, and helmets to keep your hair white!

 

[blownt]

This is what I did when I welded my frame. I added 3/8" Z shaped plate to the inside of the frame at the kickups. Full fillet weld all around that molded it in with Bondo. I fiqured the kickup would get the most abuse. Also you can see I made some body mounting brackets out of scrap 2x3 tubing with 1/2" bolts and big@ss washers.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/Chasis07.jpg

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/Chasis20-1.jpg

 

[LarryH]

IF HE HAD BEEN WEARING A HELMET, HE WOULD BE ALIVE TODAY. What do you think UK

Maybe. What other injuries did he have? Internal injuries that could have been fatal? No one can say for sure what the exact cause of death was. It could have been a combination of head and internal injuries. No one can say for sure with a full autopsy. I'll let it go before it starts to get political. But i will add that i will burn my T-Bucket to the ground before i'll wear a state mandated helmet.

 

[Hotrod46]

Since we're discussing safety, head injuries and such, I'd like some opinions on roll bars in T's.

My opinion is that without a 5 point harness, tight fitting seats and head protection they could actually cause injury. With the tight confines of a T, the bars are going to be close. Even in a minor accident, you can be thrown around pretty bad. If your unhelmeted head slams into a bar, a minor accident could cause serious head injuries. They would be great in a rollover, but only if you're belted in and the bar is taller that you are. Very few I've seen in buckets are.

Hope this isn't considered hijacking.

Mike

 

[Ted Brown]

The other day I saw a pretty neat looking helmet, it had a long Mohawk on it... About 2 inches wide from the front to a long pony tail... I guess a person could paint one to match their car and design up something that looks real wild, so it is special to your ride and not just a safety looking helmet, which like you say, look crappy while driving a street fun T Bucket. Makes it look to scary to ride in, and roll bars really look over kill, maybe just a loop showing behind the driver and passenger, sort of what George is doing with another ride he is working on... problem is, now you are really taking up needed room, things get real tight with a full fat roll type interior as it is... BT,DT...

 

[fordsbyjay]

People fall off their bicycles all the time, have head injuries and die. I consider my T no different then riding a motorbike. You need to be on full alert all the time and watch everything around you and be prepared for anything. If you don't want to do that then go by a Volvo.

 

[Gerry]

Rolls bars.
I knida worry about these unless they are full cages with multi point fixings for a harness. One thing if for sure when you strap in to a 6 point cage with a 5 point harness and pull those straps down you feel SAFE. There is an 'unseen' problem with roll bars and braces that has caused a few drivers to loose parts of their body.
The most well known over here was a US driver in a top fuel who had a rollover and lost his arm (Could have been Darrel Gywn, but Im not sure.) Dont forget the reason the NHRA brought in arm starps was to stop arms getting in between roll cages and the track in accidents. There is NO easy answer to this. Belts Bags or Cages... who knows. Best safety feature is your head - using it all the time but we can never get around that one time when it all goes wrong.

I have split my buddies down the middle with the belt question. Some agree and want the security of being held in the seat, others say in a bad one being thrown out is a better option.
Maybe this is all a bit academic when you see how many Ts have a fuel tank hanging out the back. Rear enders are not uncommon and the first thing thats going to get a hit is the tank. I know some of you have fuel cells and the tank is inboard of the X member but there is a lot around that dont.
Going to run a bladder in mine and probably foam as well.
Belts are the way I will go but 3 point NOT lapbelts.
Keep talking guys, someone may have the answer.
Gerry

 

[Ted Brown]

Ride it like the pony it is... as they are made for great fun... some will always get bucked off no matter what, but the main thing to remember is to have fun, just keep an eye out for trouble... and drive with an egg under your gas foot... hehe

 

[LarryH]

Belts are the way I will go but 3 point NOT lapbelts.

Just curious as to how you're you're going to use 3 point belts. I have lap belts in mine and i don't see anyway to run 3 pointers without some type of roll bar to anchor them to.

 

[Gerry]

This is where a bit of lateral thinking comes in. Everyone expects the shoulder belt to come from the outside of the car (in your case the left hand shoulder) to the middle. So what if you reverse that and make the shoulder belt come from the right hand side... that is the middle of the car. Now have a think about a mounting point inside the body at the middle point that you can hang a belt fixing on. All of a sudden the problem goes away. make a plate that comes up from the top of the kick up to the top of the body (on the inside) hey presto you have a fixing for the shoulder belt of a 3 point harness.
You get what Im talikng about???
Gerry

 

[Differen T]

This is where a bit of lateral thinking comes in. Everyone expects the shoulder belt to come from the outside of the car (in your case the left hand shoulder) to the middle. So what if you reverse that and make the shoulder belt come from the right hand side... that is the middle of the car. Now have a think about a mounting point inside the body at the middle point that you can hang a belt fixing on. All of a sudden the problem goes away. make a plate that comes up from the top of the kick up to the top of the body (on the inside) hey presto you have a fixing for the shoulder belt of a 3 point harness.
You get what Im talikng about???
Gerry

 

[Differen T]

Single point shoulder belts come from an outboard mounting position as an aid in keeping you in the vehicle, but their value comes into play when the impact is in the direction of travel.(either head on or from the rear)

Al