Silver bolts

[GreggDaniels]

I originally planned to use grade 8 fasteners on all my suspension parts but changed to grade 5 after reading many threads including one from this site from January 2009 I believe. My car has gold irridited valve covers and oil pan and no chrome so the gold grd 8's would fit right in. It doesn't matter which bolt I use I would never put the shear stress on the threaded portion of the bolt. I bought my bolts longer than needed to put shear on the shank portion and then cut the excess of and if I have to dab a little paint on the end to keep the bare metal from rusting then so be it. As mentioned here many things on these cars is overkill anyway. Blown big block in a 2000 lb car?

 

[leg show T]

I see where things got heated on some of these threads and for a good reason. You can pop the head off a grade --- 5 bolt ---- by over-torquing it easily.

Your life depends on the nuts and bolts you use!? ---- On a Porsche or a Mercedes, or on any other make on the front-end, do they use grade 5? No!

For--- $300 or $400 --- more you can buy stainless steel. Way worth the money. Don't skimp on nuts and bolts. Also, stainless steel locking nuts are the best!

I used stainless on everything I built. They also don't rust. And because the cars are small and little, it is even more important to play it safe. Don't take chances!

It could cost you or someone you love their life? ---- My Roadster weighs 1460 pounds and everything is chrome molly. Bob

 

[Ted Brown]

I see where things got heated on some of these threads and for a good reason. You can pop the head off a grade --- 5 bolt ---- by over-torquing it easily.

Your life depends on the nuts and bolts you use!? ---- On a Porsche or a Mercedes, or on any other make on the front-end, do they use grade 5? No!

For--- $300 or $400 --- more you can buy stainless steel. Way worth the money. Don't skimp on nuts and bolts. Also, stainless steel locking nuts are the best!

I used stainless on everything I built. They also don't rust. And because the cars are small and little, it is even more important to play it safe. Don't take chances!

It could cost you or someone you love their life? ---- My Roadster weighs 1460 pounds and everything is chrome molly. Bob

Grade 8 and normal chrome molly are a total waste of money, Chrome molly in the normal state of heat treat is only 10% stronger than mild steel and age hardens 75% quicker, so, not even as good as mild steel, IMHO I would rather it bend than break any day... as far as stainless steel goes, gallding and not compatible with Alum are two BIG problems I can live without... to get stainless stronger, they add steel to it... I have torqued the HECK out of all my #5 bolts and never had a problem yet, in over 40 years... I have broken many stainless fasteners over the years, both getting them out and going in...

 

[leg show T]

I owned a body shop for 40 years -- a major repair facility. All the technicians were I-CAR -- certified including myself. I personally have

seen many grade 5 bolts break and there are no automobile manufacturers that use a grade 5 bolt on front-end steerings or anything else

mechanical. In the space and aircraft industry, stainless steel has still set the standard for past use and modern day use. As for chrome molly,

I guess if you're talking about building a bridge, there might be some structural significance, but not worth mentioning. We would be

talking construction design. Weather and rust, structural movement, all these would play a role in the breakdown in material, but not a

factor in a T-bucket frame. As for stainless steel, threading through a block, torquing it onto a head doesn't hurt anything. You just use a washer.

With any application, you use a washer. Simple as that. NOTE: I think it's important not to undermine -- engineers and designers that have

worked for decades from space technology to racing. My cousins raced super-modifieds, and frankly, I don't think I can remember seeing a

stainless steel bolt, but again, industry standards in both application and design would for sure, not be grade 5. Bob

 

[Ted Brown]

This is to everyone that is going to use Stainless fasteners, ALWAYS us anti-seize, and never screw them into anything Alum, plus, do not over tighten them for sure as they are next to impossible to get out if one breaks off... Stainless is more tough than strong, and hard to work with... All the (none-heat treated, to specs after building) chrome molly axles I have seen that were subjected to big wheel stands, broke rather than bent, same goes for dune Buggy chassis, they tend to break rather than bend... You pick the type you feel safe with, I do...

 

[Northstar T]

I absolutly hate stainless because I've seen so many of them gall in the part. the only way to get it out is to break it off. I've had them gall in steel/cast as well as aluminum. they look pretty, but not worth the trouble IMHO.
I am a fan of grade 8 however. an honest grade 8 bolt is so much stronger in every way over grade 5. I'm not sure where the "shear" argument comes from, but I have to wonder if the problem grade 8s were actually real grade 8. it's hard to tell these days with so many shell games going on in manufacturing. If you want to test my statement, go replace the bolt/pin that holds the tines on your rototiller with a grade 5 bolt. after you till 10 feet and sheer off the bolt, replace it with known grade 8 hardware. you'll never sheer off that bolt no matter how many rocks you till up. I know this because I've seen it for 35+ years in my business. and if thats not a shear test I don't know what is.

.02

Russ

 

[leg show T]

DO NOT--thread stainless ---into-- Aluminum !! ------ Bob

 

[Gerry]

This is to everyone that is going to use Stainless fasteners, ALWAYS us anti-seize, and never screw them into anything Alum, plus, do not over tighten them for sure as they are next to impossible to get out if one breaks off... Stainless is more tough than strong, and hard to work with... All the (none-heat treated, to specs after building) chrome molly axles I have seen that were subjected to big wheel stands, broke rather than bent, same goes for dune Buggy chassis, they tend to break rather than bend... You pick the type you feel safe with, I do...

Yeh I will go along with that.
I have used SS all over my T. You do have to treat it with respect and yes It has bit me in the butt on more than one occasion. Its like that real pretty girl girl that everyone want but no one shows any respect to. Respect what SS is capable of and the way it acts you will have no problems. I dont use it on critical applications like hub to rotor bolts etc. theres a couple of words like tough and malleable that spring to mind.
Sorta think Ted may have the drop here.

 

[lkeuten]

I've worked with stainless bolts for over 30 years in chemical plants and this is my 0.02. 18-8 stainless is not much better than grade 2 they can't be hardened because of the metallurgy, so to get the strength you need you need to go up a size or 2 to make up the difference. In a nut and bolt situation always use heavy hex nuts. The bolt will stretch more than a carbon steel bolt of any grade this is why they gall so easy. If you think they are starting to gall it's probably to late they already are, so back them out and get a another one and start over. If it is used in a place where the temp is going to be over 400 degrees F hot torque when they reach temperature (this will probably gall them but you might be able to stop a gasket leak this way.). Use plenty of antisieze and make sure the antisieze is compatable with the chemicals and temperatures it will be exposed to. Don't even think about using them on anything involving aluminum (I've seen some real bad situations where this happened in pressure piping.). When installing a stainless bolt in a blind hole don't put any anti sieze on the first 2 threads or they will hydraulic lock and gall on you. Stainless is not impervious to all acids and is prone to chloride stress. Stainless is mainly used for corrosion resistance and there are places where it's use can be beneficial if the right precautions, engineering, and cost considerations are involved.
O.K. so my 3 cents worth

 

[leg show T]

I've worked with stainless bolts for over 30 years in chemical plants and this is my 0.02. 18-8 stainless is not much better than grade 2 they can't be hardened because of the metallurgy, so to get the strength you need you need to go up a size or 2 to make up the difference. In a nut and bolt situation always use heavy hex nuts. The bolt will stretch more than a carbon steel bolt of any grade this is why they gall so easy. If you think they are starting to gall it's probably to late they already are, so back them out and get a another one and start over. If it is used in a place where the temp is going to be over 400 degrees F hot torque when they reach temperature (this will probably gall them but you might be able to stop a gasket leak this way.). Use plenty of antisieze and make sure the antisieze is compatable with the chemicals and temperatures it will be exposed to. Don't even think about using them on anything involving aluminum (I've seen some real bad situations where this happened in pressure piping.). When installing a stainless bolt in a blind hole don't put any anti sieze on the first 2 threads or they will hydraulic lock and gall on you. Stainless is not impervious to all acids and is prone to chloride stress. Stainless is mainly used for corrosion resistance and there are places where it's use can be beneficial if the right precautions, engineering, and cost considerations are involved.
O.K. so my 3 cents worth

Stainless steel alans are way hard, we're looking at a sheer factor metallurgy ----strength----is way strong for a hot rod and will never get to 400 degrees,

unless the car is on fire and melting to the ground and no chemicals or pipe pressure. So, what we have is torquing the bolt at the right torque. The movement

from a 500 horse motor will snap a WELD, before it will break an alan head due to a side sheer. Bob

 

[Ted Brown]

When a bracket or any part is welded, CORRECTLY, the weld is now the strongest part of the steel assembly, it will fail somewhere other than the weld itself...

 

[lkeuten]

Stainless steel alans are way hard, we're looking at a sheer factor metallurgy ----strength----is way strong for a hot rod and will never get to 400 degrees,

unless the car is on fire and melting to the ground and no chemicals or pipe pressure. So, what we have is torquing the bolt at the right torque. The movement

from a 500 horse motor will snap a WELD, before it will break an alan head due to a side sheer. Bob

A little clarification here Bob, I was talking 18-8 stainless that the average guy would buy from the local hardware/farm store. These tend to run on the lower end of the 18-8 spec. Now if your talking B8 stainless bolts it is a whole different ball game. The B8 class 1 and B8 class 2 are considerable stronger. Your right on about the torque

 

[RPM]

Bolt specs Check out this chart, I could not get it to copy and paste here. Maybe some else can. But for the slight difference in cost, I see no reason to not use a grade 8 bolt for just about everything.

 

[one finger john]

O.K., here's something. If I wanted to have all (or most) of my bolt heads and nuts in a 5/8 size (with varying shank sizes) so I could use one or two wrenches to take apart my chassis, is that doable? I have heard that sprint cars are set up that way for ease of maintenance. Or maybe not.

John

 

[leg show T]

When a bracket or any part is welded, CORRECTLY, the weld is now the strongest part of the steel assembly, it will fail somewhere other than the weld itself...

In my body shop, it was called a snap, a weld! -- When you pull with a frame machine, you weld a plate to the panel you are pulling and pull from that piece, the steel will break, snap

around the weld! --- A bracket welded to the bottom of a frame will -- break, snap at the weld, cracking the frame around the welds OUTER EDGE. In a T-bucket with brute horse

power, usually the first thing to break is the rear-end. Brackets should be welded all the way around the housing for extra strength. The housing on all rear-

ends are the weak area. I have seen very few bolts that have sheered. In most cases, the speed was an excess of more than a 100---mph.

Heavy traction bars are a must for a better hole shot!! Bob