Traction Bars

[Allen]

Traction bars are one of the important parts of any suspension. Depending on the horse power on T-buckets, I've seen a number of them break. If you're running a 3 point on a Jag without a rubber grommet, the rear-end won't work properly. Boot horse power, bigger is better. When I was younger, you only had one chance at me, and then, I was looking in my rearview mirror.

 

[Ted Brown]

Traction bars are one of the important parts of any suspension. Depending on the horse power on T-buckets, I've seen a number of them break. If you're running a 3 point on a Jag without a rubber grommet, the rear-end won't work properly. Boot horse power, bigger is better. When I was younger, you only had one chance at me, and then, I was looking in my rearview mirror.

hehehe sounds just like Me, I only gave them one chance, if they weren't ready, TS see you T Buckets are the #1 quickest street car out of the gate, if setup correctly... bar none, even bikes...

 

[Gerry]

Funny you should say that. My buddys son ran a Fireblade up the strip on an 11.2. He ran my Topo up the same strip at an 11.3.
Said the Topo killed the Firebalde off the line. Mind you the Topo has a solid rear end and slicks.

Gerry

 

[Old Rotor Flap]

Well, as a former bike racer my sixty-foot times were 1.27 to 1.35 as I recall. I have an excellent memory... it's just real short.

My opinions regarding T-buckets running on drag strip are;

Some would not get past tech. This is not to say they're not well constructed, however if the techs think the car can go in the nines or twelves (I'm not up on the regs) the car may need additional equipment to pass inspection. Blower cars usually raise the techs' interest level.

Even on test and tune nights at the track, I would not run next to any car that I thought might be quick but did not have after market rear axles. Although, those cars were never out ahead of me.

The other opinion I share is that darn few T's with the typical wide rear tires could even come out very hard without breaking a drive shaft or axle. If you have an opportuniy, walk out to the starting line on a well prepared track. They are very sticky.

I could use a bit more education on what Allen said about Jag rears and the rubber grommet. I have a Jag rear sitting on my "Some Day Maybe Shelf".

 

[old round fart]

I had 1.10 60 foot times, but I had 598 cu.in. behind me!

 

[ruggs]

"I could use a bit more education on what Allen said about Jag rears and the rubber grommet."
I'm needing more education on where you put traction bars on a T unless your running parallel springs, maybe its just diferent terminology for different parts of the country....ruggs

 

[Youngster]

C'mon back Allen ... esplain plez ....

Ron

 

[blownt]

when I think traction bars I think Lakewood type traction bars on leaf springs. T bucket have radius rods. And I don't think my 1" trussed radius rods from RPM are gonna break anytime soon.


http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/Pic001.jpg

 

[ruggs]

"I could use a bit more education on what Allen said about Jag rears and the rubber grommet." I'm needing more education on where you put traction bars on a T unless your running parallel springs, maybe its just diferent terminology for different parts of the country....ruggs

when I think traction bars I think Lakewood type traction bars on leaf springs. T bucket have radius rods. And I don't think my 1" trussed radius rods from RPM are gonna break anytime soon.http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad249/blownt/Pic001.jpg

Exactly my point.....ruggs

 

[Ted Brown]

What point was that??

 

[ruggs]

What point was that??

Ted,
My point was that unless you were using parallel leaf springs I didn't know how traction bars could be used. My thinking of traction bars is the same as blownt's . And as I said its probably different names for different parts depending on where you live.....ruggs

 

[Ted Brown]

Traction bars, lift bars, radius rods, all work the same, just need to be strong enough so a good strong engine will not bend them all out of shape... Now you do have crazy drivers that want to drop the HAMMER on that pedal or clutch out of the gate, and mostly that type of driving will break parts...

 

[Allen]

when I think traction bars I think Lakewood type traction bars on leaf springs. T bucket have radius rods. And I don't think my 1" trussed radius rods from RPM are gonna break anytime soon.


http://i940.photobuc...ownt/Pic001.jpg
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Blownt, I looked at your photo of your -T. Yep, that's what I'm talking about. Longer for leverage, and reenforced. I think we can all agree whatever you call them, whether radius rods or traction bars, they have to be strong. Okay,-- Rugss, Jag calls them rear radius arms. Without the rubber grommet at the lower link and hub carrier, the rear-end will bind up and you have a bad ride. If you take a chance and you're running a-- 450 horse power motor or larger, and I just picked that number out of the air, the horse power could even be less, and you HOOK- with a Jag rear-end, you take a chance of putting that half shaft where the sun don't shine., popping a U-joint. And I don't mean rubber spinning, burning tires.

 

[Ted Brown]

Another note about whatever you want to call them, they are lift bars, because that is what they do, lift the chassis, if they are too long, the leverage goes to the frame, if they are too short too much leverage goes to the rear end, giving too much lift, not good either... So you are hoping for that middle ground for a street rod... If ever it wants to break loose from the gate, or do a wheel stand, the bars may need to be a tad shorter, this plants the tire harder and picks up the chassis farther back, more weight... Now I am talking a 30/70 weight ratio, with driver/rider weight in the seat when checking this balance out... needed for best traction in a drag situation... a road racer (cornering mostly) needs a 50/50 balance... Clear as mud?

 

[Allen]

I had a friend of mine that broke 3 sets of traction bars. He is running a 350 horse 350 motor. He spent the money on chrome and the rear-end. He finally got so mad at the thing that he took a 2 x 4 rectangular tubing and welded it to the rear-end. Not a very pretty sight to see, but he hasn't had anymore problems. And crazy , this is a true story.

 

[Ted Brown]

One of the main reasons that people break radius rods is because they use solid type ends, even Heim joints are solid... Really need to use the HD 4 bar bushings, at all 3 points... This allows for give and take when cornering on the street, a very needed thing, for the life of Radius rods, and rear housings... The only place you want to use Heim joints is where you have a bar that pivots at both ends, not anything that lifts... unless it is a straight push or pull...

 

[Differen T]

One of the main reasons that people break radius rods is because they use solid type ends, even Heim joints are solid... Really need to use the HD 4 bar bushings, at all 3 points... This allows for give and take when cornering on the street, a very needed thing, for the life of Radius rods, and rear housings... The only place you want to use Heim joints is where you have a bar that pivots at both ends, not anything that lifts... unless it is a straight push or pull...

Based on the suspension books I have read over the years I would like to point out that the recommended mounting position for this type of radius rod (3 point) and four bar (4 point) places the rear mounting points through the perpendicular center line of the axle. This results in generating the least binding arc of travel for the rear end on a three point provided the front mounting point is the same distance from the axle center line as the front universal joint. When this is done on a three point setup the bars and the drive shaft place lift at the same point on the vehicle. A four bar acts differently as the amount of chassis lift is determined by vertical difference between the front and rear mounting points in relationship to the ground. This is called antisquat and if the bars are mounted parallel to the ground there is 100% antisquat. The best traction seems to occur around 125% antisquat which is the result of moving the front mounting point of one bar closer to the other bar. One a three point system the front mounting point can be raised or lowered to change antisquat or the front mounting point can be lengthened or shortened. But this does create some binding.

As for using heim or four bar ends, if the bars are mounted at 90 degrees to the rear axle no binding should occur. If you are using a transverse rear spring it will also act as a locating mechanism. If you are using coil overs a panhard bar or some other type locating system. Heim ends will tolerate some misalignment (up to 17 degrees depending on loading) but as stated it is best to avoid it. And the ride is better with bushings

Al

 

[Allen]

new Idea concept from Gerry UK-- please!?

 

[2old2fast]

This is not the first time this "traction" discussion has comeup. What seems to happen is that those who "seem" to understand start throwing out terms like "anti-squat, anti-dive , instant center, etc." and I,m guessing for many of us ,our eyes start to glaze over. I, for one, think it would be great if some of you chassis guru's would post ,preferably w/drawings or pics, exactly what "it" is that your trying to convey to those of us
'" less educated" slobs. You know ,simple, if I change "this" it will do "that" maybe I'm expecting to much? In other words, Don't dazzle me w/ brilliance, or baffle me w/ b/s. sorry, had to say this. thanx, dave

 

[Ted Brown]

This is not the first time this "traction" discussion has comeup. What seems to happen is that those who "seem" to understand start throwing out terms like "anti-squat, anti-dive , instant center, etc." and I,m guessing for many of us ,our eyes start to glaze over. I, for one, think it would be great if some of you chassis guru's would post ,preferably w/drawings or pics, exactly what "it" is that your trying to convey to those of us
'" less educated" slobs. You know ,simple, if I change "this" it will do "that" maybe I'm expecting to much? In other words, Don't dazzle me w/ brilliance, or baffle me w/ b/s. sorry, had to say this. thanx, dave

Dave, I am with you there... I thought I did kinda explain what happens when you have lift type bars that are too long, and also too short... plus the fact that you have to find the balance point of your personal ride... If you want a car that is real quick out of the gate, you should have a balance point (complete car on stands, just off the ground, at 70% of your wheel base to the rear.. also with driver's weight in the driver's seat, and passenger's weight if you usually take a rider) this will give you 70% static weight on the rear wheels, IF balanced at that point! ... This is a needed starting point if it will be used for that function... Too long a bar will not lift the whole chassis, mostly the front wheels, too short a bar will lift the rear of the body too high, you are trying for a lift amount, of about an inch... hope this helps, as there is waaaay more to this story than just my goofy words can explain... So many (too many) things to take into consideration...