Up grade for frame plans

[Youngster]

This weekend I did some experimenting with a T that has a frame built from the plans I have posted in the Tech Articles here.

We swapped the bushed ends on the ends of the hair pins for heim ends. Although there didn't seem to be a problem with the bushed ends, I have always wondered if the heims wouldn't work better. As a result, we found the steering effort to be less with the heims on an unequal road surface. I don't think I would go as far as to say the ride quality was improved. At least I didn't notice any change during a 60 mile test drive.

The parts used were ordered from Speedway.

Heims...#175-0126
cone spacers...#546-4110

It should be noted here that a washer should be installed on the outside of the heim as a safty item incase of heim failure. We used a cone spacer for the washer to increase the articulation of the heim.

Ron

 

[Baby Huey]

Ron, I have to admit that as of yet I have not looked at your plan set....
I was wondering if you have thought of using tie-rod ends rather that Heims and Bushings ?
I have talked to lots of guys in this area at various car shows and cruise in's, and I'd have to say that 80% or more of the cars that are actually drivers, have Tie -Rod ends rather than Heims.
I know those little tapered inserts are a pain, but they are available and easy enough to weld in to the plates already there.
I'm thinking bout doing mine over and retro fitting the Tie-Rod ends...
I have a part number for some that are 5/8" thread so I won't have to turn out new threaded bungs..
I'll just turn out the tapered peices and weld em into the holes..."BH"

Part Number : McQuay-Norris ES323R ( Early 60's Chev. Car/Lt Truck) 5/8" thread

 

[Youngster]

BH ... I have and still do use Ford tie rod ends. With this set of plans I am trying to simplify the process of building a frame for those who haven't done it before. As you said the tapered button is a pain. The taps for the l.h. and r.h. threads are also expensive because they are an automotive thread and not used in industry. By using the heim end with a 1/2" bore, you can use a piece of the 7/8"x 1/2" bore DOM for the frame mount.

For those who would rather use the Ford tie rod end, you can have the hair pins tapped for the 11/16"x 18 thread when you order them. Speedway is the best sourse for the tie rod ends. They also have the jam nuts for them. I prefer the SS jams. For the hair pins you can use the right hand ends on both sides.

Right hand tie rod end ... p/n# 910-02909 ... $9.99
Left hand tie rod end ... p/n# 910-02919 ... $9.99
Right hand SS jam nuts ... p/n#910-01059 ... $2.99
Left hand SS jam nuts ... p/n#910-01159 ... $2.99

If you are using a pair of Ford 'bones, you will want to get the weld in bungs, p/n#910-02969.

BH...Check the taper on those Chebby tie rod end. Some had different tapers on them. If you find some time, take a look at those plans. I would be interested in your opinion. :neutral:

Ron

 

[LumenAl]

Mine is all done with Ford style tie rod ends... except in Polished SS... Can't help myself sometimes...

 

[Youngster]

First let me say there isn't anything wrong with using tie rod ends. You need to check when you set up the bracket so the tapered stud isn't all the way back in it's socket. This is the only reason I've seen them fail. I might add, if you go to heims, be sure the flat surface on the ball dosen't go beyond the outside of the body. This sometimes happens if the heim is at too much of an angle. The result is the teflon wears out quickly and then you have to replace the whole heim joint.

Ron

 

[jmr122848]

Ron, I have to admit that as of yet I have not looked at your plan set....
I was wondering if you have thought of using tie-rod ends rather that Heims and Bushings ?
I have talked to lots of guys in this area at various car shows and cruise in's, and I'd have to say that 80% or more of the cars that are actually drivers, have Tie -Rod ends rather than Heims.
I know those little tapered inserts are a pain, but they are available and easy enough to weld in to the plates already there.
I'm thinking bout doing mine over and retro fitting the Tie-Rod ends...
I have a part number for some that are 5/8" thread so I won't have to turn out new threaded bungs..
I'll just turn out the tapered peices and weld em into the holes..."BH"

Part Number : McQuay-Norris ES323R ( Early 60's Chev. Car/Lt Truck) 5/8" thread

I know this is a reeeeely old thread, but I have questions. The tapered inserts you mention, for the frame side of the rod end? for the tapered stud to go through? Where do you get them? are they for the ford rod ends? how big are they? do you know the angle of the taper? is that enough questions?:lol:

 

[Youngster]

i use a 1/2" length of 3/4"round stock for the botton. i start with a 3/8 hole and use a tapered reamer to finish the hole. the reamer isn't cheap ($80 from speedway) but i could only get 8 buttons made from a machine shop for that money. i'd hate to guess how many buttons i've made but i doubt if it owes me money now. another option is to use the second eye off of the right hand spindle for the drag link. i never throw anything away...lol.

Ron

 

[fluidfloyd]

Youngster,

As you might have guessed in previous post, I am a heim end guy. I like them for just about all applications if the design allows it. On any suspension parts I always put everything in double shear as that eliminates bending loads on bolts. I have attached a picture of radius rods with heim ends shown in double shear. This not only takes care of any bolt bending loads but also addresses the safety issues of any unusual side loads one might experience. Hope this will be of interest to anyone using heim ends in stressed applications. Once again just for the record, I Like Heim Ends!

George

 

[jmr122848]

i use a 1/2" length of 3/4"round stock for the botton. i start with a 3/8 hole and use a tapered reamer to finish the hole. the reamer isn't cheap ($80 from speedway) but i could only get 8 buttons made from a machine shop for that money. i'd hate to guess how many buttons i've made but i doubt if it owes me money now. another option is to use the second eye off of the right hand spindle for the drag link. i never throw anything away...lol.

Ron

is that the 7 degree or 10 degree reamer?

 

[Youngster]

sorry...7degree...meant to include that.........

Ron

 

[Youngster]

nice work george...don't ever hesitate to post pics of your work....i like seeing it!!!

Ron

 

[Ted Brown]

Heim ends are great for links, steering, sway, anything straight back and forth, that is just what they are designed for, not Radius rod ends, you all can say what you like and do as you please, but I learned many years ago not to use them in any side stress applications I know, you will say you have been using them for years, that still does not make it right, I used to myself... used to. PS, The only time I have ever seen a bolt break is at the thread, so never put the thread in a place where it is stressed sideways, always try and keep it inside a tube, protected in some way... Happy crusing

 

[GAB]

Here is an idea that I have used a few times with spherical rod end bearings (the proper name for them by the way....Heim is a brand name) to get away from the big moosey bolts for 5/8" and 3/4" joints. With this arrangement, the bolt is just keeping the rod end from falling off of the end of the tube. Not everybodys cup of tea, but I like it.

 

[RexRod]

I like it! Again, you are a very clever guy.

David

 

[Ted Brown]

Heim is sooo much easier to spell and everybody knows what one is talking about, so I use that term as you say a Brand name it is. I like that way of bolting them to the frame, BUT!! the bolts need to be square with the rods, not the frame, to stop side stress, as that way every movement (to the ball) is straight back and forth, not trying to move it sideways or out of the Joint body... The main reason I do not use Heim joints where the suspension meets the frame, is so that there is SOME cushion, and helps stop vibes and road sounds and more vibes, which solid type ends allow, there will be absolutly no difference in steering pressure with these ends... just easier on everything, try and straightin a bent piece of metal with a rubber hammer, you will get my point. The same reason the factory uses a soft joint in the steering shaft, takes out noise and vibes. Much more comfortable to drive for long periods of time, not make it a chore. Happy cruzin PS; When I take a Woman for a ride, I do not want it to be in a Rattle trap, or one that Jars Her to death (short springs and no shock travel to boot

 

[GAB]

As long as we are on this subject, here is an idea that I picked up from an A-arm on a little teabagger race car. This allows infinite adjustment to rod ends (or tie rod ends for that matter) without disassembling the fitting from the frame mounting. It won't work on every rod end use but is handy when it can be used.

Just back off the jam nut, turn the internally threaded sleeve in or out and relock the jam nut.

 

[Ted Brown]

As long as we are on this subject, here is an idea that I picked up from an A-arm on a little teabagger race car. This allows infinite adjustment to rod ends (or tie rod ends for that matter) without disassembling the fitting from the frame mounting. It won't work on every rod end use but is handy when it can be used.

Just back off the jam nut, turn the internally threaded sleeve in or out and relock the jam nut.

Looks like that would be a great way to let the whole end swivel, use a grease fitting in the end of the Radius rod... as far as tie rod ends, that is what left and right hand ends are made for, very easy to adjust I myself, like my eccentric bolts on the frame ends of the Radius rods for adjustment, nothing to come loose and then ride on threads alone, as most RR work in torsion also.

 

[GAB]

Just to clear up any misunderstanding, my reference to tie rod ends was in relation to their use on the rear of radius rods, not on tie rods or drag links

 

[Ted Brown]

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaa Sorry, I did not think about people that use tie rod ends for suspension ends, not a real good practice, as they are not very strong at keeping the ball end inside the housing during side stress, kinda like Heim ends... and a whole lot harded to use a safety washer, just where do you put it????

 

[fluidfloyd]

Here is an idea that I have used a few times with spherical rod end bearings (the proper name for them by the way....Heim is a brand name) to get away from the big moosey bolts for 5/8" and 3/4" joints. With this arrangement, the bolt is just keeping the rod end from falling off of the end of the tube. Not everybodys cup of tea, but I like it. :welcome:

GAB,

This is really a great way to anchor rod ends in single shear. By putting all of the threaded area of the fastner inside the bushing you have eliminated the problem of notch effects (stress riser) in the threads. Great thinking on your part. I'll put that trick into my info file for later use. Kitzmiller said I'd like how you think and I believe he's right. Once again, what modeling program are you using?


George