Eatin' Crow

[old round fart]

Every time somebody asks about IRS or coil-over shocks on here, I always reply "buckets need cross spring and dropped axle. Well, I found a website that has made me rethink that opinion. For years I have been looking at a Locost USA. It is a site focused on a book published years ago about building a car similar to the old Lotus Super seven. Basically it is a space tube frame using foreign car brakes and hand built IRS. The Brutan Super Stalker was a V-8 off shoot of the same car.
This new version uses a front wheel drive engine and trans driving the rear wheels with 4 wheel independent
suspension. The prototype weighs 1465 pounds with a turbo Honda making 420 h.p. Think about a motor that gets 35 MPG (in stock form) in a car that weighs over twice this car weighs. Mileage, power to weight, foot and passenger room improvement, not the same old SBC, What's not to like?
The website is "midlana.com". The car looks mike this:

 

[baddawgcustoms]

A good looking car is a good looking at no matter what it is IMO. And THAT'S a cool looking car!

 

[fordsbyjay]

A pocket rocket for sure.

 

[old round fart]

It looks like I can use the bucket body and p/u bed I have. Ever heard of a track day T?

 

[Ttownbucket]

How fun would that be? I bet you would be the only one at any show, auto cross or track day you went to. I hope you build this. I would love to see the build.

 

[fluidfloyd]

It looks like I can use the bucket body and p/u bed I have. Ever heard of a track day T?

One thing you might want to think about if you do build this combination as a T-bucket. Whatever type of driver/engine bulkhead you decide on you will need to insulate it pretty good. I would assume you would try to hide a lot of the rear suspension system by running a '27 style or a truck bed. Anything that lets you move a lot of air as in engine heat will help you. That engine/body wall can put a lot of hear into the car and your back. We finished a '66 XJ13 with a mid engine V-12 and it will cook you. As it was a true race car there was no insulated padding and the driver just had to be tough. Anyway, something to keep in mind. A mid-engine unit like this would really be a pretty easy build from a design stand point. I saw a street dune buggy several years ago in Kansas and they used a '98 Olds V6 front suspension and all and just built forward. Looked pretty simple. I'll be watching!

George

 

[old round fart]

Thanks George. I always find your opinions valuable. The prototype has intakes at the front of each rear tire and the tail light panel is made of mesh material. The radiator air is ducted to exit at the low pressure area behind the front wheels. with the open top I hope heat won't be a problem but I'll provide room for insulation.

 

[Zandoz]

I've been a fan of the Lotus/Caterham 7s, and the home grown versions, since my sports car days in the 70s. The 7s theme of a small lightweight fun car has been a big part of the inspiration for my build. I keep having to talk myself out of using a 7 nose on my build...LOL

 

[fluidfloyd]

Thanks George. I always find your opinions valuable. The prototype has intakes at the front of each rear tire and the tail light panel is made of mesh material. The radiator air is ducted to exit at the low pressure area behind the front wheels. with the open top I hope heat won't be a problem but I'll provide room for insulation.

Old Round,

I might add that the Jaguar does have an aluminum engine/driver bay bulkhead and that does radiate a lot of heat. I'm sure you could insulate that and make it pretty comfortable. By routing cool intake air through the engine area you could move that heat out pretty quick. I to have looked at the Lotus 7 cars for sometime but mainly just for wishful thinking. Still they would be a pretty quick and cheap build if you did most of your work in house. I have learned one thing dealing with recreating vintage sports cars and racing chassis. A number of the companies either didn't have or just didn't want to deal with bending and fitting round tube sections. They just mitered everything with an angular cut and butted them together. It does make it easier for sure. Most of these cars were using .065 wall 4130 and gas welding it. For those so inclined it would eliminate a TIG welding machine and a tube bender. Doesn't get any simpler then that. Now, about valuing my opinion...Well I do appreciate that but as they say, "Everybody has an opinion and you know what that's worth." Have fun.

George

"I'm not an engineer but I did drive the kiddie train once."

 

[old round fart]

Thanks George. Did you just add the signature? I can't believe I just noticed it! That is great! I have been wanting a TIG for years and I have had a Hossfeld bender for 40 years. I use to build bucket frames and front axles to support my street rod habit, so working with tubing and fitting roll bars is old hat. It has been a long time since I did it and I retired 3 years ago and need a reason to get out of my recliner while I still can!
Have you looked at the Midlana site? Kurt is an incredible designer and fabricator and I must admit a very good author as well. I have the book beside my chair and find myself picking it up quite often. Just bought a '53 Buick custom for my wife so when I get the few tweeks to make it hers I will get my TIG. Had to get the ATTABOYS to cancel the AWSHITS! I have enrolled in a TIG class that starts Sept. 4 th.

 

[old round fart]

Oh yea. I forgot to mention stainless steel is a real gook heat shield too. Learned that on the Midlana site.

 

[fluidfloyd]

Thanks George. Did you just add the signature? I can't believe I just noticed it!

Since I really don't know about signatures and other correct usage of forums I will have to assume the above is what you are referring to. It was a one time thing that just came to me at the moment. I had actually just used about the same thing in an email to a friend of mine that has two mechanical engineers working for him. I signed off with "I'm not an engineer but I did sit in ones seat." I included a picture of me sitting at the throttle os a steam locomotive in Dodge City, Kansas. It really goes back to a now deceased long time friend that was a really good ME and racer and he had influenced me in a great number of ways over the years. His death really bothered me and still does to this day. I always respected him as a friend and an engineer and I valued the time and many projects we worked on together. I always have been very careful separating the fact that he and many others were the real deal that took the time, effort and challenge to get the training and the document. I on the other hand have just been an ole shop rat that worked at designing and building things for the last 41 years. A few years ago a magazine article was done on a car I built the chassis and drive line for.I had never met this guy and really didn't even know there was going to be an article written. Well the first thing he says is "designed and built by Automotive Engineer George..." I really wasn't very happy about that but I'm pretty sure he was just using information given to him. I got to meet him a few months ago and I think he's going to do another car article on a project we're building. He introduced himself and I told him that I was not an engineer and to please not ever do that again. So my "signature" is really just my twisted sense of humor or maybe a little bit of sarcasm.

Now, about that Milana site...Yes, I did look at it right after you first posted a link to it. Pretty interesting project. I would be interested in seeing his book but not at $100.00 a copy. I have no intention of building one as I don't have time to build a roadster. About the only thing that would really take some design time would be the front suspension geometry and you could just wing it with a close copy of a Mustang II kit and hope that the one you chose was a correct copied of whoever they copied. I do like the body with all the riveted panels. It or the Lotus 7 would be a unique daily ride that would sure get a lot of interest for sure.

You mentioned you've had a Hossfeld tube bender. Well so have I. Truly the work horse of the industry for many years. There are a lot of benders on the scene now that are less expensive, more compact and easier to use but Hossfeld has a huge selection of tube die sizes and radius. As for TIG machines. Well I have two old Lincoln 300/300s. One was built in 167 and the other in 1972. I can literally weld Mountain Dew cans together with them. I think everything I have is old come to think of it and I think it suits me well. There is another member here that has a Hossfeld and he is a true master at operating it. I have yet to get up to his shop but I tend to believe I will be stepping back in time to a better and very comfortable place. If you do decide to build one of these cars I would sure like to keep an eye on your project. I'm not sure of where you are located but I'm in the Kansas City area. Keep me posted and if you ever want to talk about it just let me know. I wouldn't take it to this forum as I feel it would be inappropriate but I would still like to know about it. Whatever you do, keep me posted. Good Luck.

George

 

[old round fart]

Thanks for the response. I had an early mentor as you did and lost him at Pomona in '71. I miss him every day as well. I am in Little Axe, Ok. so I'm not to far for a road trip! When I start my build I will let you know by PM. John

 

[Ironhead]

I ordered the plans book for this car. I love the idea of something different and it has a lot of interesting features. The most popular donor drive train package seems to be the honda '92-'95 prelude which are everywhere. Probably nothing a hard core T bucket guy is interested in but I like they way they remind me of the old AJ Watson indy roadsters except those were front engine racers. Those were my favorite cars, shows how old I am.

 

[old round fart]

Yes, I agree with the Watson roadsters. I am going to try to adapt the front end subframe to a 1 1/2 x 3" tube so I can use the door in my bucket body. Getting the motor in the back eliminates so many problems in these little cars it seems all good. I'll PM you my email so we don't upset the folks on this site.

 

[old round fart]

Looks like I'm not the first one to think midengine T. I think mine will be faster! Still collecting parts to build the mock-up.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/grizzley-super-vee-t-volksrod-with-trailer.955715/

 

[fletcherson]

Every time somebody asks about IRS or coil-over shocks on here, I always reply "buckets need cross spring and dropped axle. Well, I found a website that has made me rethink that opinion. For years I have been looking at a Locost USA. It is a site focused on a book published years ago about building a car similar to the old Lotus Super seven. Basically it is a space tube frame using foreign car brakes and hand built IRS. The Brutan Super Stalker was a V-8 off shoot of the same car.
This new version uses a front wheel drive engine and trans driving the rear wheels with 4 wheel independent
suspension. The prototype weighs 1465 pounds with a turbo Honda making 420 h.p. Think about a motor that gets 35 MPG (in stock form) in a car that weighs over twice this car weighs. Mileage, power to weight, foot and passenger room improvement, not the same old SBC, What's not to like?
The website is "midlana.com". The car looks mike this:

View attachment 10228 View attachment 10229

Looks cool, I thought about all wheel drive as a possible future project.

 

[Zandoz]

Looks cool, I thought about all wheel drive as a possible future project.

One setup I always wanted to toy with was the drive-train out of a 90s Toyota Previa AWD mini van. They had a 4 cyl engine laid flat on it's side mounted mid-ship.



My idea was to build a single seat 60s indy style roadster laid out like the turbine cars...with the driver setting next to the engine, instead of in front or behind it. A left hand drive version of this configuration....



With a turbo on that 4cyl, combined with AWD, near perfect weight distribution, and a low center of gravity, it would be a blast to drive.

 

[fletcherson]

One setup I always wanted to toy with was the drive-train out of a 90s Toyota Previa AWD mini van. They had a 4 cyl engine laid flat on it's side mounted mid-ship.

View attachment 10737

My idea was to build a single seat 60s indy style roadster laid out like the turbine cars...with the driver setting next to the engine, instead of in front or behind it. A left hand drive version of this configuration....

View attachment 10738

With a turbo on that 4cyl, combined with AWD, near perfect weight distribution, and a low center of gravity, it would be a blast to drive.

You were thinking it through. Sounds good. It shouldn't be hard to locate a donor Privea. The thing I like about AWD is the ability to accelerate through the corners. It makes for a fun ride. I think Volvo made one a few years back that was well suited for higher output engines. It has been done with turbo'd V8's in street rods. I seen an overview of one, but I don't remember what the name of the company was. It was pricey!

 

[Zandoz]

You were thinking it through. Sounds good. It shouldn't be hard to locate a donor Privea. The thing I like about AWD is the ability to accelerate through the corners. It makes for a fun ride. I think Volvo made one a few years back that was well suited for higher output engines. It has been done with turbo'd V8's in street rods. I seen an overview of one, but I don't remember what the name of the company was. It was pricey!

Last summer I got to briefly drive a turbo AWD Volvo...driving was a blast, but wife and I were not comfortable in it. Otherwise I'd have it now.