How long is your steering arm? You have a traditional drag link right? The steering arm is the what the drag link connects to and the steering arm is bolted (most of the time) to the spindle. It should be about the same length as your pitman arm, I know it was asked before and diagrams shown, but I don't think you gave an answer, if you did I'm sorry I missed it.
Steering boxes
- Thread starter skinny mike
- Start date
Hackerbilt
Active Member
Exactly!
My car ran a Corvair box, adjusted correctly and fitted correctly. (Wheels straight ahead when the box was exactly on the center spot of rotation. The TIGHT spot in other words.)
Car was as precise as you need it and the steering wasn't hand over hand going around turns...it was comfortable.
It wasn't as direct as my daily driver import...but I don't ever remember wishing it was either.
Now...if it had the chassis stiffness and the tire/suspension precision of say a Caterham Super 7, I'm sure I would wish it did, but it doesn't...and I don't! LoL
My concerns may be premature, we'll see. When I bought the car I knew it had a couple issues. Well..it has many! The few times I drove it it needed a lot of steering wheel movement for turning and lane position changes. A full turn of the wheel as opposed to a half turn with my daily driver. I have friends that currently have older cars and they experience the same steering issues. It isn't just "T" related, it's older engineering. Maybe my goal can't be achieved without power steering to get me the responsiveness. Does my"T" steer easily? YES! That isn't the issue. It's the amount of steering wheel input to affect turns and such. Drive your newer OEM, then drive your "T" and that difference is my issue. It's ok with you, fine, different strokes. I just want mine to have "better" input.I don't know how to put it any plainer. No-one here argues about one wanting better brakes....
Henry, I understand the geometry of the steering and, that isn't the issue.
Hackerbilt
Active Member
Do we have any pics of your setup? Like to see the box and the steering arm at the axle etc.
The vertical column is part of the problem. My car had a column tbat came out of the dash with some u joints to aim it down to the box. Much easier to steer like that than hand over hand with a vertical column. Think about it. Do you think you will ever see a performance vehicle with a vertical column and flat wheel? You want performance like steering thats your first start. After that it will come easy. Set up the box so that straight ahead with the wheels is dead center of the box rotation. The box gears mesh very tight there....but much less tight everywhere else. If its off the steering will be sloppy...even with a new box! This is all stuff you need to check. Post some pics of what you have there now. Maybe we can help you optimize it!
The vertical column is part of the problem. My car had a column tbat came out of the dash with some u joints to aim it down to the box. Much easier to steer like that than hand over hand with a vertical column. Think about it. Do you think you will ever see a performance vehicle with a vertical column and flat wheel? You want performance like steering thats your first start. After that it will come easy. Set up the box so that straight ahead with the wheels is dead center of the box rotation. The box gears mesh very tight there....but much less tight everywhere else. If its off the steering will be sloppy...even with a new box! This is all stuff you need to check. Post some pics of what you have there now. Maybe we can help you optimize it!
Neshkoro
Well-Known Member
My bucket has an almost-vertical steering column. It takes 4 turns of the wheel to go from lock to lock. When I built it 30+ years ago, I never thought that it was going to be a road course racer. It's certainly different from driving my daily driver which has an automatic trans, power steering and brakes.
The bucket: stick shift, manual steering and brakes. Just a different animal.
I suppose you could build a land yacht if you wanted. I think that's the fun of these cars. They're simple and basic. They're like an over powered go kart.
Maybe not a good comparison as in a go Kart you can whip around corners and slide into the turns. I wouldn't do that with my bucket.
The bucket: stick shift, manual steering and brakes. Just a different animal.
I suppose you could build a land yacht if you wanted. I think that's the fun of these cars. They're simple and basic. They're like an over powered go kart.
Maybe not a good comparison as in a go Kart you can whip around corners and slide into the turns. I wouldn't do that with my bucket.
O.K. I will try to simplify. I find that "t" buckets, with traditional, steering boxes," like we always done it" require more steering wheel movement for a given response. I was asking only if anyone knew of a steering box that required less input for the same steering response. That's the Question! So...reading several forums, people change suspensions for a netter ride ( better, not land yacht). Lotsa positive feedback. Others want to upgrade their brakes and yeah, that old system leaves a lot to be desired.! Positive, helpful feedback, suggestions. Want improved steering??? "it's good enough, I'm happy, no land yacht..race car,etc.. WHY??? .
Separate post so they ain't so long. That tubular steering arm I have (Speedway?) can be shortened or replaced with shorter. Geometry. I understand. My pitman arm can also be lengthened. Again geometry. A concern is better response but with unacceptable effort. If nothing else I'll try those. Asked about different box because (and I don't KNOW) the effort might not be greater for a better response. So the question begs..why is it ok to want to improve everything else an a "T"...but not the steering?
A delay cuz of my slow keyboarding. I get it!!! I'ts acceptable to redo the pitman arm and steering arm but..how can I even ask about a different box?!! Read the replies. Simple Question and a lot of defensive replies. I evidently crossed some line. I apologize.
2old2fast
Active Member
If what you're saying is you want more steering response as in more precise , then the straight axle ,buggy spring,lite , flexible chassis of a tbucket with huge tires on the rear and small tires up frt isn't what you should be driving. Modern day cars have forbid chassis with independent control arms , computer designed variable rate springs and shocks and the list goes on.. AFA driving them like a go kart , oh yes you can , keep in mind that you corner with your right foot as much as the steering wheel...
2old2fast
Active Member
The "popular" hot rod boxes are ( in no particular order) f-1 , corvair ,VW bus , maverick , and now the half rack... the corvair is small light , reversible. Cheap. . f-1 are expensive and worn out , VW bus are steering arm up which screws up your bump steer , maverick is hard to find and steering arm up , half racks are butt ugly IMO...Vega , from what I've been reading, the off shore stuff is JUNK.. and the pit man arm points up .....
In the last message it's supposed to say RIDGID chassis. I hate spell check
In the last message it's supposed to say RIDGID chassis. I hate spell check
fletcherson
Well-Known Member
Hey, it’s your build, go to the bone yard and find a box that will work with the ratio you like and make it happen. No offense intended or taken from my perspective... different is what makes building them fun and worth doing. There are pleanty of variations out there... when you ask for suggestions, you get opinions, good bad, whatever.
Well, yeah, of course we can all go places, physically searching for things, sometimes the only way for answers. But this is a forum and people ask questions to hopefully, get answers because...someone may have done it and can give answers. I'm no different. I have an existing issue (for me) and asked if someone had answer to my query. I'm not the only one to ask a question here. I've asked many because I know there are those who have been there and done that. "Does anyone have or know of a steering box with fewer than 4 turns lock to lock"? I guess not. I have been answered about a VW box but, no answer as to the turns lock to lock. Iv'e been answered as to how one loves their car and I honestly appreciate that. It's about smiles and pride. It IS what it's about. I just want to change my steering performance. S'all
old round fart
Well-Known Member
Try to put a half rack and hide it!
Hackerbilt
Active Member
Nobody is defensive here. We just aren't having the issues you seem to be having!
Bottom line is...we don't even know what you have for steering!!! Give us a picture or two!
We WILL try to help.
We always do our best to help...but you have our hands effectively tied behind our backs!
Bottom line is...we don't even know what you have for steering!!! Give us a picture or two!
We WILL try to help.
We always do our best to help...but you have our hands effectively tied behind our backs!
GreggDaniels
Member
You could try one of these to speed up your existing box. The price is right.
Speedway Black Small Body 2:1 Steering Quickener
Speedway Black Small Body 2:1 Steering Quickener
fletcherson
Well-Known Member
How much steering do you actually need? Lock to lock is all fine and good if you can use the wheel movement. In mine, no way would I ever need to turn the wheels as far as going lock to lock will allow. Quicker steering is fine if the car will support it functionally. Steering wheel diameter pitman arm length, etc will allow changes with existing components. Maybe we can take note of how much steering wheel movement is actually useable while driving rather than how many rotations lock to lock, would that be more useable info? Seriously, if my car would actually turn as sharp as the wheels will turn, it would likely toss me out. There is a trade off between effort required and rotation too, doubt that it’s a big issue in such light cars, but like brakes, it matters. Also, overly sensitive is just that, and can cause twitchy handling. Just trying to put perspective on this. When I bought mine, it had traditional straight up steering too. I hated it, some like it, not me, I opted to redo the steering and brakes, basically a controls overhaul. I used a Vega box and got a bracket from rpm. It was the option that best matched my existing build. Many options. As light as these are, there are likely many small, quick ratio boxes that most traditional buckets haven’t seen available from the plethora of imports out there. I wasn’t trying to be a smart a.., just stating the obvious. Many of us have gotten used to ordering parts and tried and true stuff, but that’s not really the spirit of hot rodding, I’m guilty as anyone and used to have a junk yard day at least every month, weekly a lot of times, to scout for parts for projects, repairs, etc... I still enjoy an occasional bone yard trip, but my energy isn’t what it used to be. Just trying to be helpful.
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