Thought I explained my reasoning. My car has what I believe is a GM box. Don't matter. It requires 4 turns lock to lock. So...to just change lanes, for example, requires about twice the steering wheel movement than newer cars. I ASSUME a box with fewer turns, lock to lock, such as newer cars, would require less steering wheel movement to affect the same lane change. It's about getting a bit better steering "performance". We try to get better braking,right, even a bit better ride, right? I find some of the feedback, SOME, less than helpful. Some suggest arm mods, helpful replies, but, not addressing my question. And here we are second "page" later. Anyone with a box with fewer than 4 turns lock to lock? I thought this would be a simple question and here we still are.
Steering boxes
- Thread starter skinny mike
- Start date
I guess the short answer is "no." So now what . . . does the "steering quickener" have any appeal?
Neshkoro
Well-Known Member
There you go, Jerry. That's one way to do it. Half a rotation of the steering wheel gives you lock to lock. I think a lot of it is geometry.
You could modify the Pitman arm or the steering arm length to make the steering quicker but that's going to make it harder to turn the wheel. Less mechanical advantage.
Just sayin'
You could modify the Pitman arm or the steering arm length to make the steering quicker but that's going to make it harder to turn the wheel. Less mechanical advantage.
Just sayin'
Indycars
Well-Known Member
This place has gear boxes and you can tell that the quick ratio boxes are 16:1 and have 4.5
turns lock to lock (LTL). So you can always judge how quick they are by the turns LTL.
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turns lock to lock (LTL). So you can always judge how quick they are by the turns LTL.
Manual Steering Gear Box 82-70032 NQ Manual Steering Gear, 82-70032 NQ Manual Steering Gear Sale - BuyAutoParts.com
Manual Steering Gear Box 82-70085 QR Manual Steering Gear, 82-70085 QR Manual Steering Gear Sale - BuyAutoParts.com
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Hackerbilt
Active Member
Your box requires 4 turns lock to lock. OK.
You get a box that requires 3 turns lock to lock (and assuming the same range of total motion at the pitman arm)
You get faster, more responsive steering. 100%
At what cost though?
Price of the new box...average $250-350.00
Slightly harder steering because the ratio is changed.
Re-engineering your box mounting, as its unlikely this new box will bolt to your original bolt holes. (couple of hours plus paint frame $300.00???)
Re-engineering your steering column as it is unlikely to attach to the new box without some changes. $75-100.00 I guess)
Potentially having to alter your drag link to allow it to connect to your new pitman arm...as thats unlikely to swap over from the old box. (Arm $60.00 plus the link change...$50.00 or so)
So around 800.00+ bucks at the very least is quite likely...plus the time.
OR...Keep the old box with 4 turns lock to lock...but use a shorter steering arm at the road wheel.
The cost?
The price of a custom steering arm...approx $24.00 for a regular one from Ron...but I bet for $100.00 he would cut you out any shape you needed. Maybe less...
Slightly harder steering as the ratio changed.
Box mount stays the same and the frame paint is void. ($0.00)
Steering column stays the same. ($0.00)
Pitman arm & draglink remain the same. ($0.00)
Huge time savings as well. But...its your money and your time.
I think your fixation on a box replacement has left you unable to see the benefit here.
You get what you need in a simple, uncomplicated way.
If you are still set on a new box...post a picture of the box you have NOW so we can suggest a box that will at least be a close fit!
We aren't trying to be difficult.
You're just giving us absolutely nothing to work with...and then getting irritated with us for not telling you what you require!
Indycars
Well-Known Member
So you CAN'T always judge how quick they are by turns LTL.
Sorry, but I can't edit my post after 10 minutes !
I am a Administrator for another Xenforo form, sure wish I could help but I'm NOT an administrator on this form.
Indycars
Well-Known Member
I have noticed many times when asking a question on any forum, I get a response tailored to the posters
experience and only somewhat related to my question. I, like most people, tend to think my experience
is exactly what the OP needs to know. I know I have done it .... have you ??? Let's not post what we think
he needs, but respond to what he has asked. Yes in the beginning it's appropriate to post related experiences,
but he has asked the same question several times.
Bottom line, I can relate to Skinny Mike's frustration.
G'Day Skinny,
Can understand your frustration, but All the "old" recirculating ball type boxes were 4 turns or more, Quick steering wasn't a neccessity back when these boxes were common, I'd be very surprised if you found an OEM box with less than 4 turns lock to lock. I seem to remember my Dad's 63 Falcon was 4-1/2 turns. Ev en the OEM racks these days are in the region of 3.5 - 4 turns lock to lock. We buy replacement rack and pinion for the Escort racks we use to reduce the turns down to either 2.4 or 2.2. A 2.2 rack is HEAVY at parking speeds.
Regards,
Can understand your frustration, but All the "old" recirculating ball type boxes were 4 turns or more, Quick steering wasn't a neccessity back when these boxes were common, I'd be very surprised if you found an OEM box with less than 4 turns lock to lock. I seem to remember my Dad's 63 Falcon was 4-1/2 turns. Ev en the OEM racks these days are in the region of 3.5 - 4 turns lock to lock. We buy replacement rack and pinion for the Escort racks we use to reduce the turns down to either 2.4 or 2.2. A 2.2 rack is HEAVY at parking speeds.
Regards,
Thank you Indycars, you got it! Butch27... mentioned his VW box but, not the no of turns. Hackerbilt.. I understand exactly what you are saying. I know the two arms can be moded and cheaper. My box is old, kinda sloppy even with adjustment, so...I do understand some of the inquires as to why I ask, but, then, some go on to tell me how thiers is just fine and the tone (of some) implies it should be fine for me too. Constructive. Yep! I posted other places hoping for an answer to my Question I honestly feel foolish for that .Newb, frustrated, wanting an answer to my question. Again, really, I'm embarrassed.
Thank you, AusBucket. What racks do you use? Maybe making one a half rack then moding the steer arm to Slow it down A TAD!!!Some things can be done on the bench then, when a few cold days visit..do the car. Ideas, ideas. Status quo can be stagnation.
2old2fast
Active Member
VW bus box , 55-67 , 2 1/2 tune lock to lock , I have one I did not use because of where the column comes into the tub ,( too far to the right) & the length of stroke would put the drag link into the left frt tire with a reasonable left hand turn turning radius. I did not want to cut and weld the steering column arm and having someone broach new splines in a custom steering arm would've been cost-effective prohibitive .
I didn't try to be different , I wanted dependable steering that worked ...
I didn't try to be different , I wanted dependable steering that worked ...
Hackerbilt
Active Member
I'm embarrassed we aren't helping you! LoL
Can you...or do you have someone else, who can take pictures of your car?
A LOT of people are taking a lot of time trying to help you...while completely blind.
Take some pictures of the steering box, box location, front end and overall car...inc rear suspension. Not all closeup either.
Take a little time and effort to help US! Seriously!
We all have each others back here and now you are a member so we want to have yours too.
It's a fantastic message board...but we're all over the place on suggestions to help without knowing exactly what we are up against.
Indycars
Well-Known Member
This is always helpful Skinny Mike!!!
You still have our ear!
Hey Skinny, we are all trying to help. Even if it doesn't explain everything, it would make us feel more helpful if you could post a few pics.
Can we dial it back a couple of notches, we are all on the same page, or trying to be on the same page and help.
Maybe this will help with photos. Let me know if you have any questions, would love to help!!!
Post a Photo From an iPhone/iPad
Photos Posting Guide with Pictures
Photo Software and Resizing
Last edited:
old round fart
Well-Known Member
Have you driven the car? You may be fixing a problem that doesn’t exist!
fletcherson
Well-Known Member
Guess I’ll just refrain from sharing experience or ideas with him since it apparently isn’t exactly what is desired... I somehow missed the directive to the explicit desired answer... best of luck skinny, I won’t waste any more of your precious post space, or my time.
Skinny wrote, What racks do you use?
Skinny, I use Ford Escort racks (english) can be bought new out of England (after market) with various ratios, Std is 3.5, or 2.9, 2.4, 2.2 turns lock to lock. Most of the cars you see around on the street will have a rack in them, and a lot will be power steer racks. If you have a look at the Miata rack (very popular with the clubman building crowd in USA), there's heaps of info on the net for converting it to manual. There are many and varied ways to mount them, but on the bucket it will be a custom mount as shown on here in previous posts. Pretty much all the modern racks are quicker lock to lock that the old Recirculating ball steering boxes. For Miata rack info have a look at Kieth Tanners Locost building site.
Regards,
Skinny, I use Ford Escort racks (english) can be bought new out of England (after market) with various ratios, Std is 3.5, or 2.9, 2.4, 2.2 turns lock to lock. Most of the cars you see around on the street will have a rack in them, and a lot will be power steer racks. If you have a look at the Miata rack (very popular with the clubman building crowd in USA), there's heaps of info on the net for converting it to manual. There are many and varied ways to mount them, but on the bucket it will be a custom mount as shown on here in previous posts. Pretty much all the modern racks are quicker lock to lock that the old Recirculating ball steering boxes. For Miata rack info have a look at Kieth Tanners Locost building site.
Regards,
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